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New Prospect with an Important Question

RustyF

Registered User
Hi, my name is Rusty. I have developed a strong desire to learn to fly and to own a Supercub. I am 49, and I actually have 6 hours in a Cub, from when I was in my twenties, but being somewhat of a wild child (understatement) and at least having the wisdom to not pursue it at the time, for my safety and those around me,,.... and now being a friend of Bill W. for ten years, I am still here today to have the thirst to learn to fly. I have asked some advice from some of my friends that are pilots and discussed with others a couple of central questions that I would like some advice about. Since I want to have a Supercub for the characteristics such as being a plane for remote areas, short fields grass strips ( I am a hunter). I am in them and huskies alot hunting. I have been advised by the majority to learn in a taildragger. A few others have suggested that I learn in a tri gear first then switch. I am inclined to learn in a Supercub, as that is where I am going toward, but wanted to get some advice from all of you.Also, if you have any suggestions outside the normal study materials for flight, I would love to hear those as well.
I have bought "Stick and Rudder" and read it, along with a dozen other books. I have flight tutors on the computer and my target date to begin is mid April. I have found it hard to find taildragger instructors and harder still to find a plane to rent, so I may just have to buy it first and learn to fly it. (yes, I have done some things backwards before with good results). Please be straight and brutally honest in your replies (that seems to be the norm here and I like that approach). Best Regards, Rusty
 
go for the taildragger...forget the nosedragger...I did it the same way...bought the plane, a J5 cub...found a instructor...flew the plane...the only time I have in a nosedragger is when I went to Anchorage for a lesson on controled airspace...did my three T.O.'s and Landings... Hope this helps...and by the way...the nosedragger was easy to cross over to...hopped in the plane and went.

Ron
 
RustyF

I was also 49 when I got my PPL. I had a business partner with a Super Cub (which I later purchased and still own). He was kind enough to let me learn to fly in his Cub as long as I could find an instructor and get insurance. Both were difficult, but I actually wound up get both within a week of each other. Avemco got me the insurance and it really wasn't bad. I started my flight lessons on February 8, 2002, soloed on February 25, 2002 and took my check ride on March 31, 2003 (I was having too much fun flying to study for the oral).

I now have over 750 hours, mostly in my Cub.

At one point very early in my training, before solo and before I felt I had really landed the plane, I rented a 172 for one hour of instruction. Made five perfect landings in a row. Hadn't ever done that with the Cub.

I am extremely pleased I learned in taildragger. You don't develop any of the nose gear bad habits and you do develop lots of good habits that you wouldn't get in a 152 or 172.

Finally, if you take your check ride in a Super Cub, particularly if the FAA Pilot Examiner is kinda short, he'll never have a clue how close you are to any of the practical test standards because he can't see the panel worth beans.
 
I like the idea of learning in your own plane. But make a smart purchase, and accept that finding the right plane and the right deal may take some time. (And if you're thinking of insurance, make the call and get an idea of what you'll have to pay.) While you look, absolutely go fly in whatever's available. There's not one thing wrong with nosedraggers. The goal is still to take-off and land while pointed straight down the runway. The fact that they're more forgiving on the ground is a rule of physics. Whether you exercise that rule depends on the standards you hold yourself to. Make it go straight where you want it to. Master the airplane.

Just because a guy flies a nosedragger doesn't make him a lesser pilot, and just because a guy flies a taildragger doesn't make him a better pilot. Good pilots are just good pilots.

Flying something is better that flying nothing. Once you're off the ground, you'll have fun regardless of what you're in. Enjoy it!

SB
 
for private pilot books i got the 61 part? book set thingie from jeppesen. Very good has everything you need and it helps a lot.... drawings that explain everything very helpful for me at least

http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/application/commercewf?origin=category.jsp&event=link(browse)&wlcs_catalog_sourceKey=wlcs_categories&wlcs_catalog_destinationKey=wlcs_siblings&wlcs_catalog_category_id=AT1A1A

im also new to flying.... im 15 and should solo in april on my 16 b day i'm learnin in a nose wheel but maby hopefully switch to a cub sooon


tom ford
 
Rusty,

You will never be sorry you learned in a taildragger, unless you find (as many do these days) that there is no designated examiner capable of:

1. Giving a checkride in a taildragger.

2. Giving a checkride in a taildragger without sufficient instruments (this has changed recently for the worse as I understand it).

3. Giving a checkride in a plane older than he is.

I just finished up two guys I trained in an experimental supercub, and even though the DE was a great taildragger pilot, the plane did not have the instruments for the ride, or the lights for the night flight, so we finished in a 172.

Another taildragger student of mine will do the checkride in his C-170, hopefully in the next week or so (Yes, Thomas, if you are reading this I said the next couple weeks!).

Good luck to you whatever you choose!

sj
 
Rusty, Started to learn to fly when I was 49. Wanted to learn in a taildragger that's is what I wanted to fly. Heard the pros. and cons of both. I sold my high school car on e-bay and refinanced my home to get the funds. 4 hours of lessons were in a rented Citabra at 140.00 an hour. My own plane to the instructor is 25.00 per hour. I do pay rent, insurance, av-gas also yearly annual. Two year ago I purchased a 1958 supercub P.A.18 A. [of all places off e-bay]. I have a total of 90 hours. I ground loop after only 5 hours of flying. This was with my plane and my new instructor. I can still hear his voice yelling "keep it straight with the run way!!...Keep it straight with the run way!!!!!" After the dust and dirt settled I had a wing that needed fabric repaired, a blown tire tube. Never replaced the tube because I put on 26 inch goodyears. I have never had so much fun. I hope it all goes good for you. Learning to fly has consummed most of my thinking and time for the last two years with the gathering of funds, ground school, flight lessons .. I am still married.
 
I took my private check ride in my J3-Cub. A turn and bank and a King KX99 and an examiner that loved every minute of it. He had not ridden in a cub for a lot of years.
 
Rusty, I agree with SB in that there are good pilots in all types of aircraft. Mastering a taildragger in crosswinds is definitely different than a nosedragger, however there are many different skills that need to be learned and mastered to become a "good" pilot. Most of these skills including two of the most important, judgement and decision making, can be developed in any type of airplane. Once you've "mastered" the basic skills, transitioning to other airplanes is much easier. Consider what's available and if you're like most of us, what the cost is. I'd suggest which ever type airplane is available that will allow you to gain the most experience within your budget. Transitioning to other planes becomes easier with more experience and better basic skills. Good luck!
 
Rusty, I got my license from Andover Flight in NJ (12N), in a J-3 and a Stinson, in Nov. 2003. Don't mess around with those ugly, inferior, boring nosedraggers. Nothing to be gained by that. Learn the right way from the start. If you are in the northeast, contact Andover Flight. Good luck!
 
Rusty,
I know some pretty good pilots who never learned to fly until later in life. I think the reason may be that they already had some life sklls and experience and could more readily define where the boundaries were.
If you fly a nosedragger properly you will have little trouble with the transition to taildraggers. The main thing is to get out there and fly!
Good Luck!


J
 
New prospect with an important question

You might try looking for an FOB with a Citabria. Most, or at least many, schools with an aerobatic course have a Citabria. That is what I did. I decided that the clock was ticking when I hit 50, and it took me a year to sort out the same questions you have. I only wanted to fly in order to fly a Supercub. When I hit 51, I finally found a school with a Citabria and an instructor that would teach primary in it. I had spins, unusual attitudes, grass landings, etc in the first 20 hours. I bought my first Supercub with 35 hours under my belt, got my private in it, did a bunch of mods including making it IFR , and got my IFR in it..... I didn't have an hour with a nosewheel or a yoke until somewhere over 900 hours, when I got my commercial. I have loved every minute, and would highly recommend this approach. I know it has cost me less in the end than renting, with the constant appreciation of Supercubs. Starting with the Citabria was much less of a worry than it would have been if I owned the plane, the aerobatics gave my a great feel for flying, from the start, and I never have ground looped a cub....but I sure came close in the Citabria many times, and actually had one no-damage ground loop, with my instructor there to bail me out .
 
Hi Rusty
I think Jim had some good advice, the citabria is an excellant choice for training I owned a 7GCBC before my first SC. I got my tail wheel endorsment in it Excellent airplane all around just not a super cub when, or if you transition from one you will know what I mean. And even if you can't find a school with one, Just buy one, put a couple years on it then sell it ,these planes you dont marry them, get sick of one send her down the road, and find a prettier one.
As far as transitioning from the nose wheel to one with the 3rd wheel on the right end. You can do it either way I feel. The most important
thing is JUST DO IT every minute in the air is credited to your life expectancy!!!


Thankx Matt
 
Hi Rusty: I agree with Christina if you are in the Northeast give a call to Damian over at Andover Flight. He is a great instructor and will have you doing landings as smooth as gravy sandwiches in no time. By the way if you ever have the opportunity to find out what a gravy sandwich is please let me know. Good Luck....John
 
For someone just getting there license I think the side by side training is a better learning environment. Solo in a 172 then consider getting a supercub or 12. Buy one and trane at the same time. When was the last time you climbed into the front seat of a supercub? You might start there. Is an insurance company going to permit you to solo a supercub. Might want to check into that one. I guess they will for a price.

Operating a supercub.

Engine reserve $7.50/hr
Fuel per hour 24.00/hr (based on 8 gal/hr@ 3.00
Insurance 16.00/hr (based on 1600/yr prem. @ 100 hrs)
Hangar 24.00/hr (based on 200/mo @ 100 hrs)
Cost of capital 30.00/HR (based on 60K@5% @ 100 hrs)

Total cost of owning $101.50/hour

Yes I know the more he flies the cheaper the fixed cost go down but this is darn close to what the real cost of owning and flying a supercub per hour.
Renting is a pretty good deal.
 
FORTYSIX12 said:
Is an insurance company going to permit you to solo a supercub. Might want to check into that one. I guess they will for a price.

No problem at all, and the cost is really not much difference that I can tell. Both the leaseback cub and another I fly are approved for student solo after 10-15 hours of dual (pretty standard).

sj
 
FORTYSIX12 said:
For someone just getting there license I think the side by side training is a better learning environment.

I think that is only true for learning all the instruments & radios. I think there is something to be said for learning to fly first, then all that other complicated (and overwhelming to new students) stuff that doesn't make the airplane fly. That is why some schools, like Andover, teach in cubs first (where you can't even see the panel because the instructor's head is in the way).

Remember that old adage that I've heard instructors say - Marconi doesn't make the airplane fly, Bernoulli does! In fact, recently one of my IFR instructors pointed out that to fly (at least VFR, anyway), the oil pressure & temp gauges are by far the most important instruments - you really don't need ANY of the other instruments to fly. He is an old guy who used to own & fly a Corsair.
 
supercubber said:
If your being taught at a school in a super cub or citabria where they make you sit in back while the instructor sits up front....don't walk away from that school RUN!

Sorry, I should have said "J-3 cub". Yes, the instructor sits in front, student in back. Student solo's from back.
 
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