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Bill Rusk
06-12-2004, 10:01 PM
I will start this thread and try to post my "education" as I go on this project.

Ordered the kit in Jan 04. Nick Smith jr was exceptionally helpful at all times. Always promptly returned phone calls and e-mails. Reserved my delivery slot even before he actually got the 5k deposit check just based on my word. How nice that is. Can't say enough good things about the Smiths. Wings were to be delivered at Oshkosh and fuselage in Oct., he called a couple of days ago to let me know the wings were ready. How nice to do business with someone who does what he says he will and ahead of schedule no-less, you don't see that everyday. I will use Air-tec and try to get the wings covered before the rest comes. Will continue this thread as I go.

Bill

Jerry Burr
06-13-2004, 03:59 PM
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but because this is not a rebuild. It might be a good idea to hang the wings on the fuse, fit the tubes, wires, lines, fairings, and then cover them. Not all surprises are happy ones. Jerry.

Phil Kite
06-13-2004, 04:45 PM
100% agree with Jerry :D

cpthazard
06-13-2004, 10:17 PM
Great idea for a thread Bill and I'm looking forward to reading about your experiences in the days to come. They had a demo at the Ak Airmen's trade show and I think it was one of the unsung surprises of the event, I never could get the guy alone long enough to ask him any questions but I sure liked what I heard him telling other interested parties. For the money the quality and attention to detail was very impressive also. Good luck with your project and like I say please keep the progress reports coming. DennisB.

Steve Pierce
06-14-2004, 08:48 AM
Bill, This will be great. Can't wait for dialog and pictures. It probably will be easier in the long run to wait on covering. My Dad flew his Clipper home 2 weeks ago after complete fuselage rebuild and cover w/all new sheet metal. Against my advise he covered first. Before he left I asked him what he would have done different and you can guess what he said. I just got him back for all the advise he gave me that I had to learn the hard way. Glad your getting the ball rolling, I know your excited. :D

Bill Rusk
06-30-2004, 10:02 PM
Road trip

Went to get the wings on Monday. The Smiths are outside London, Ontario Canada. Near detroit. Took a flatbed aluminum Snowmobile trailer up there, about 16 feet long. The Smiths were super. Showed me around and mounted the wings on the trailer for me with brackets that hold the wings upright by attaching to the mounting points at the spars, fuselage and strut points.
This set up was superb. The wings were firmly and securely mounted and traveled back home on some pretty crummy roads just fine. They did not just say "OK here are your wings ..... see ya." They mounted em up. That is definitely going the extra mile. Way Cool.
They have a lot of tooling and jigs and obviously take great pride in doing a quality product. Their jigs are not 2xi4's but HEAVY duty steel. Ain't nothin moving there.
I was most impressed.
Plan to order Aeroflash strobes and Airtec tomorrow. Landing lights are already on order, and will have to install pitot line, plumb gas tanks, leak check em, etc

Let the games begin

Bill

Phil Kite
06-30-2004, 10:28 PM
Hi Bill,

If you or anyone else need help or information with the Air Tech covering system, please give me a call or email and I will always try to help or pass on some of the mistakes that I made when first starting out. We are the Canadian distributors of Air Tech, but also recover 4-5 planes per year. We currently have a J-3, PA-18, PA-20 and 7AC in the shop getting restored right now.

Phil Kite 800-491-8987 phil@kiteair.com

KelvinG
07-01-2004, 01:44 PM
Hi,
Just curious how many Alaskans were building or planning on building a Smith Aviation Kit? I've got one of their Bushmasters on order. They are going to show it at the 2005 Alaskan Airman?s show and then I will take delivery.
I am still playing with engine ideas for mine. I think I'm going with an HO-360 pumped up by Lycon.
Anyway it would be nice to have idea of who in Alaska has taken the plunge beside myself.

Kelvin

cruiser
07-01-2004, 03:04 PM
Have the Smith's made any progress toward getting on the 51% rule list? I have working over 2 months with the local FSDO on getting the data plate replaced for my PA-12, he has finally notified me that a letter was sent to Cub Parts in British Columbia authorizing them to sell me a replacement plate. What an education! At first they did not accept the fact that the fuselage frame # is not the serial #. Then they did not accept the fact that Piper did not own the type certificate. I cannot imagine that they would ever issue a certificate for a Smith airplane without it being on the approved list. Jim

Steve Pierce
07-01-2004, 04:39 PM
Bill, Start a photo album on the site from the pick-up of the wings to the grin on your face when you fly it for the first time. That would be great.

Bill Rusk
07-01-2004, 05:45 PM
Steve, I will as soon as I figure out how to post em.

The 51% rule is not quite the same as a new data plate, but your point is well taken. I don't think the Smiths are working on it at this time. They have about 15 or so flying and claim that it has not been much of a problem so far. (I guess one had a issue in Alaska, may have been builders documentation, you have to show your work, if you walk in to the FAA with no builders log, pictures, receipts etc. then it begs the question as to whether you really did the work.) It would not make a difference on certification, but it does make a difference on whether they will issue a repairmans certificate to the builder, thus allowing you to do your annuals, if not , the annual must be done by an A@P. Does not need IA certification. You can still do whatever work you want to, but once a year an A@P would have to do and sign off an annual.

Kelvin There are only about 4 Smith kits in Alaska, I'm not sure why there are not more, unless it is the lack of commercial use. About 15 reside in the Boise ID area, with probably 10 flying there.

Phil Thank you for that kind offer. I will no doubt take you up on it. Ordered supplies today. Paint will be white with red trim.


Bill

Steve Pierce
07-01-2004, 06:54 PM
The quick build Bearhawk qualifies for the 51% rule and from what I have seen they are about the same as far as what the builder has to do.

KelvinG
07-01-2004, 07:28 PM
I've talked to Nick Smith a fair amount about the 51% rule. As far as he knows he has had only one builder that had problems. As Bill said, it was a builder in Anchorage who had problems documenting who built the kit. I've also talked to the Fairbanks FAA who told me if I show them the FAA's 8000-38 form (51% paperwork) accepted by other FAA inspectors they would accept mine, (with the usual disclaimers about me trying to pull a fast one).
I've also had some experience with Nick Smith's business ethics and I can tell you they are of the highest caliber. I trust this man.

Kelvin

Bill Rusk
07-08-2004, 10:14 PM
Received all covering supplies from Air Tech. Excellent to do business with. Recommended!!

Having great difficulty with Lycon. Ken WILL NOT return my phone calls. I have called 16 times and he returned 1 call a month ago. I have no idea what is going on and at this point I am NOT impressed.

Purchased the book "The Aeroelectric Connection" (www.aeroelectric.com). Highly recommended, excellent source of aviation electric info. They are closely tied to B&C which seems to have a solid reputation in the business.

Bill

KelvinG
07-09-2004, 12:41 AM
....Having great difficulty with Lycon. Ken WILL NOT return my phone calls. I have called 16 times and he returned 1 call a month ago. I have no idea what is going on and at this point I am NOT impressed....

Bill

I must admit I have had the same problems with him, though email seems to work better. I've chalked it up to a very busy shop. What flavor of engine are you thinking of using?

With the current cost of avgas I've started having second thoughts about the wisdom of an high compression engine. I'm wondering if I might be better served by something that can burn auto gas.

Kelvin

jnorris
07-09-2004, 04:14 PM
....It would not make a difference on certification, but it does make a difference on whether they will issue a repairmans certificate to the builder....

Hi Bill,

Be advised that, regarding amateur-built certification, having or not having documentation of who built the airplane WILL impact the certification. The applicant must have documentation that proves that amateur builders did the major portion of the work in order to certificate the aircraft as amateur-built. (This is regardless of whether or not the applicant will be applying for a repairman certificate or not.)

The applicant for an experimental/amateur-built airworthiness certificate must submit an Amateur-Built Eligibility Statement (FAA Form 8130-12). The "meat" of that form is a statement certifying that the aircraft was built by amateur builders, and the applicant has the documentation to support that claim. The FAA inspector or DAR will review this documentation in order to verify that the aircraft meets the requirements of amateur-built certification.

The burden of proof is on the applicant. No documentation, no amateur-built airworthiness certificate. (At least, that's the way the system is supposed to work!) In such a case, the airplane may be placed in a different experimental category, such as experimental/exhibition. However, the operating limitations for other experimental categories are far more restrictive than amateur-built, so having the documentation is a major issue.

Regarding the Smith kit specifically, I sat down with a Smith kit builder some time ago and went over his project using FAA Form 8000-38, the Fabrication and Assembly Operations Checklist. This is the same form the FAA uses when they evaluate a kit for inclusion on the "51% list". We found that the Smith kit does indeed meet the requirements for certification as amateur-built. The count was close, but not that close. In view of these findings, I would not have any reservations about issuing an amateur-built airworthiness certificate for a Smith Cub. (Providing that the applicant had proof that amateur builders did the work on the project.)

Joe Norris

Bill Rusk
07-09-2004, 06:27 PM
Joe

Thank you for setting the record straight. It is really nice to have an insider on the team so to speak. I sincerely appreciate your inputs and look forward to seeing you at New Holstein.

Bill

Crash
07-09-2004, 08:29 PM
....Having great difficulty with Lycon. Ken WILL NOT return my phone calls. I have called 16 times and he returned 1 call a month ago. I have no idea what is going on and at this point I am NOT impressed....

Bill

I must admit I have had the same problems with him, though email seems to work better. I've chalked it up to a very busy shop. What flavor of engine are you thinking of using?

With the current cost of avgas I've started having second thoughts about the wisdom of an high compression engine. I'm wondering if I might be better served by something that can burn auto gas.

Kelvin

The new XP-0360 from Superior is rated for auto gas and you can even get the engine in kit form if you like. I think assembled in the experimental form it is around $17,000.00. I don't know what the kit would cost. I am with you on the cost of 100LL. Out in the Bush it is going through the roof. Crash

Bill Rusk
07-10-2004, 08:21 AM
Kelvin

Well I was going to try a 9 to 1 ratio. Should still be able to use a little auto gas if necessary, but that is on the outside edge, may have to use an additive, and will have to be VERY careful. At this rate though I may end up with a regular engine as no help from Lycon.

Bill

jnorris
07-12-2004, 07:45 AM
I sincerely appreciate your inputs and look forward to seeing you at New Holstein.

Hi Bill,

I'd sure love to be at New Holstein, but until I retire from EAA there won't be much chance of me making it over there for the Super Cub gathering. They pretty much keep me busy sunup to sundown at AirVenture. (But they pay me to be there, so I ain't really complaining! :wink: )

Take care, and keep in touch!

Joe

Bill Rusk
07-12-2004, 12:02 PM
Joe

Good point, I guess I should have thought of that. I'll hunt you down at the show then, just to shake hands and say hello.

Did some serious research on the RV forums (WWW. Matronics.com) regarding Lycon and could not find a single negative comment except that are slow at times. Ken did call me back and said they were going to ship today. The price was about as quoted which was nice. So Lycon is back on my OK list and if they do ship they will be back on the good list with the caveat that they are slow. Kens right hand man, Steve, is out with back surgery and that has no doubt been a factor. When Ken called back it was late on a Saturday so he is working OVERTIME.

Got the first big order from Spruce and will start building a paint booth today.

Bill

KelvinG
07-16-2004, 05:19 PM
Just thought I'd pass along a part of Smith's July newsletter. Too many times I've seen good deals or exceptional quality parts and thought "I will have to get that one of these days" only to find out when I was ready, the part or deal wasn't available any more.

Glad this time I didn't do that this time. My kit will be delivered in the first part of 2005!

Kelvin



Don?t Panic
This is one of the harder things I?ve had to put down on paper, but I?ve always been up front with people and I want to be up front with our customers about the future of Smith Aviation. My father Nick Sr will be 62 years on his next birthday, although he works like he is in his 20?s, actually most 20 year olds don?t work as hard. I?m 34 with a young family, with sons in ages 1, 3, 5, and 15. I?ve worked very hard, along with my father the last 10 years to make Smith Aviation what it is today. with the surge of sales recently, along with Nick Sr?s desire to slow down, and my ambition to spend more time with my family, and the need to build more planes to accommodate our customers, we have decided to look into the possibility of selling our business. Now, before anyone panics, there is no sale imminent at this time. We have had discussions with several companies and one has shown serious interest. We are going to weigh all our options before selling as there is no rush. It may end up that we still own our business 5 years from now if a proper owner has not been found, one that places a priority on quality before profit. I will keep you informed of any further developments,

Thanks,

Nick Smith Jr.

Bill Rusk
10-09-2004, 10:39 AM
Update

A couple of folks were kind enough to ask for a progress report so here goes.

Engine - I started dealing with Lycon in Feb, sent parts to him for rework in Apr, he said he would have em done by Jun, after a bit of frustration I got the last of the parts on 3 Sept. So basically they were about 3 months later than planned/stated for a total of about 5 months to get the parts. I am very pleased with the quality and price so far. I have the engine mostly assembled and should have it on the test cell by the end of Oct. I was hoping to have the engine done and set aside at this point so I could concentrate on the wings, but alas Lycon was a little slow and..... "The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry". With the help of Lycon I am at 9 to 1 comp ratio and I am hoping for about 180 plus Hp. We will see. We have a Dyno here and If it is working I hope to Dyno the engine late this year.

Wings - I covered the flaps and didn't like it so ripped all the fabric off and recovered them. The book says that you can cover right over small protrusions of up to 2 inches.....well that is true on a large area like a wing but it does not work so well on a small surface like a flap. Duh..., I am a little slow at times. Anyway,I recovered them and also the ailerons. Got the flaps stitched, and I will be taping today. Hope to take them through paint in the next week or so to learn and test the waters, that way if I don't like the quality of my work the loss to redo it is not like redoing a whole wing panel. So far the Airtec system is about like the others I guess. You glue the fabric, iron it, stitch it, and tape it. Then the systems diverge in the paint process. I do like the glue up system of airtec as (from what my neighbors say) it seems easier to get the tapes on straight.

Fuselage - I am supposed to get the fuselage in Oct. I spoke to Nick Sr and they have NOT sold the business and things are progressing normally I think. I plan to go see him on Tuesday and will report back. He says his own personal Smith Cub is ready to fly as soon as they get the paperwork. It looks great, Cub yellow, with a low compression Lycon engine at about 170 to 175 Hp.

Got the paint booth done. 12 by 24 Built with white presswood sides so it is rigid and is probably way overkill. 2 rows of florescent lights and 4 Halogen flood lights, 2 intake fans and 1 exhaust fan all filtered. Hopefully it will work well. Sure was a pain to build.

Next update after engine runs and or I get some paint on the flaps.
Also going to try to learn to set up digital photos so I can put a file here for all to see. Note that I figured out the Avatar stuff so there is hope.
Will also talk about the John Roncz phone call on next update.

Bill

jon
10-09-2004, 11:18 AM
Bill it sounds like your having as much fun as me. Last week we squeezed
the fuselage in the basement to get started on the fitting of TMX 360,
wiring,fuel lines ect. Tail surfaces and flaps are waiting for color, wings
are stiched and tapes are next. Fuel and valve system is a challenge.
Have a safe trip!

Building a Smith and enjoying every minute.
John :D

Bill Rusk
10-27-2004, 09:06 AM
Covering

Do not glue the fabric onto the trailing edge. I have now covered the flaps 3 times and I think I am getting it figured out. Steep learning curve here. If you glue the fabric to the TE it will show as a very unsightly line. Much better if you cover the flap with one piece of fabric and put the seam at the LE (on the top side of the LE). It will then be hidden under a tape and also by the cove of the wing. In so doing do not glue it to the TE, just wrap it around it. If you must glue it to the TE then do not glue it more than about 1/2 or 3/4 inch forward of the aft edge of the TE. Just let it float off of the forward part of the TE. Looks MUCH nicer.
I will try to call Steve today and figure out how to post pictures so you can see my mistake and resolution.
Took the airtec through the primer phase and it really sands out nice. It does not get all gummed up or rubbery.

More to follow

Bill

Bill Rusk
10-27-2004, 11:11 PM
OK sports fans, with the help of Dana, we now have pictures. Go to "Cub Driver Photo Albums" page six, last one and you will find "Smith Cub by Bill Rusk".
Photos of paint booth, flap debacle, etc.
For you guys building Smith Cubs this flap tip may help. Ailerons are the same also. Don't know about factory Cubs because it depends on the width and shape of the TE.

Party on Garth......Party on Wayne......


Bill

LANDSHORT
10-29-2004, 11:11 PM
Which wing did you choose for your kit?

Bill Rusk
10-29-2004, 11:38 PM
Landshort

I chose the round wing tips with 48 gal gas. As best I could tell the other wings don't give that much better slow speed performance, 1 or 2 knots and I greatly prefer the looks of the classic tips. If the squared tips gave a big performance advantage it might be worth the sacrifice in appearance. Obviously, appearance is strictly individual preference. Another factor driving most everything on the Cub is building for the 90% rule rather than the 10% rule. That is the one that says " What is 90% of your flying?" Answer for most of us is messing around the local area and getting the hamburger type thing. Example for me is the issue of dual doors. That left door might be nice when it is on floats (probably 30% of the time for me) and when I really need to dock on that side,(10% of 30%), so not very often, but the throttle will be in a uncomfortable position ALL of the time with dual doors. So it is not worth it to me to have poor ergonomics for the throttle for that one time a year event. One of the things I love about cubs is the way the controls just seem to fit and be in just the right place. It is a wonderfully comfortable plane to fly.
The door/throttle is just one example of many, and others may have other opinions but I do think whatever your opinion....build for what you will be doing MOST of the time.

Just my opinion

Bill

LANDSHORT
10-30-2004, 12:20 AM
Thnx Bill, great input, I hadn't thought about the throttle location with two doors. Will rethink this....

In a perfect world we could go fly exactly what we want to build but that is quite often not an option.

That's the great thing about this site, gobs of information.

Best of luck with your project and I will be following along through your comments here.

Scott

upsjetflyer
10-30-2004, 10:25 PM
On the subject of thottles, I'm putting Van's RV-8 thottles in mine. It'll take a little bit of engineering but not much. I ordered them directly from Vans which is quite a bit cheaper than Aircraft Spruce and they are beautiful. I got that tip from a friend who's put them in several cubs.

www.vansaircraft.com

They have two different types. One has throttle/prop/mixture and the other throttle/mixture. You can substitute the prop control for carb heat in you want. I went with just throttle/mixture because my fingers hit the other two levers on the triple control.

Just another option to consider.

Jay 8)

TIRacing
10-31-2004, 04:35 PM
I have been reading the postings regarding the Smith Cub. I too am building a Smith Kit. I live in Florida and I purchased mine through Daytona Cubs, the old marketing arm of Smith. I am just getting ready to begin the covering. I have completed all of the rigging, wiring, and plumbing. We were making great progress until the storms hit and it brought the work to a complete stop. I would be happy to add my thoughts to this discussion if anyone is interested.
Best regards,
Mark Hein

Bill Rusk
10-31-2004, 06:26 PM
Mark

YES !!! Bring em on.

Bill

Scudrunr
12-18-2004, 05:14 PM
How 'bout an update? :lol:

Bill Rusk
12-18-2004, 07:11 PM
Well, the update is a little lacking. No heat in the hangar til yesterday so things slowed down a bit. Had to take a little time to renew CFI stuff anyway.
The Fuselage was to be ready in Oct but the Smiths are a little backed up, I hope to get the fuse and all the other parts after the first of Jan. They have the laser cutter up and working and mine will be the first fuse cut from that program. The Smiths have also hired two welders so I think you will see an acceleration in the production rates.
The engine shop at the other end of the strip has the Dyno up and working so I hope to test my souped-up engine soon and see what I really got.
I will post results here. I have a Steve Tubbs exhaust, if anyone has other systems that they would like tested on the Dyno let me know and if it can be done it might be interesting to see what they do.

Thanks for your interest.

Bill

Ron B.
12-19-2004, 06:02 PM
I to, am building a Smith Kit, actually we are building two in my hanger, a friend and I. Mine has the all surfaces covered but for the fuselage, (most painted). Both fuselages are almost ready to cover, with most interior panels covered with fabric.We just primed the other set of wings with epoxie primer and are waiting 6 more days for them to gas off, and we will cover them next.
We both have purchased the Mattituck, TMX 0-360, as we are both putting our planes on amphibs.
Thanks Ron

LB
10-29-2005, 01:05 PM
What sort of issues does moving a kit from Smith across the border to the US? Taxes, import fees, etc??

-LB




Road trip

Went to get the wings on Monday. The Smiths are outside London, Ontario Canada. Near detroit. Took a flatbed aluminum Snowmobile trailer up there, about 16 feet long. The Smiths were super. Showed me around and mounted the wings on the trailer for me with brackets that hold the wings upright by attaching to the mounting points at the spars, fuselage and strut points.
This set up was superb. The wings were firmly and securely mounted and traveled back home on some pretty crummy roads just fine. They did not just say "OK here are your wings ..... see ya." They mounted em up. That is definitely going the extra mile. Way Cool.
They have a lot of tooling and jigs and obviously take great pride in doing a quality product. Their jigs are not 2xi4's but HEAVY duty steel. Ain't nothin moving there.
I was most impressed.
Plan to order Aeroflash strobes and Airtec tomorrow. Landing lights are already on order, and will have to install pitot line, plumb gas tanks, leak check em, etc

Let the games begin

Bill

irishfield
10-29-2005, 02:11 PM
Aircaft and aircraft parts cross our border Duty free LB. Your state might chase you for taxes when you register the airplane or when you import it..there's never a clear picture with stuff going south. Everything going North...we get nailed for taxes on value..still no duty.

LB
10-29-2005, 07:41 PM
Thanks. Any thoughts on how the Smith Tundra Boss/BushMaster compares to the Bearhawk? Just thinking about the next project....



Aircaft and aircraft parts cross our border Duty free LB. Your state might chase you for taxes when you register the airplane or when you import it..there's never a clear picture with stuff going south. Everything going North...we get nailed for taxes on value..still no duty.

KelvinG
10-30-2005, 01:36 AM
LB,
I gave strong consideration to a Bearhawk before I chose the Tundra Boss. In my opinion they are both pretty close to fulfilling the same mission, but without a flying Tundra Boss this is guesswork.

1. Bearhawk has a very good cruse speed, better than what I would expect from a Tundra Boss.
2. Because of the Bearhawk’s good top end speed I would expect a little better STOL performance from the Tundra Boss. Of course the lighter you build it the better its STOL will be.
3. If you plan much off field flying I think you can count on dinged parts. The Bearhawk started life as a scratch built aircraft, meaning all parts are custom built so a replacment Bearhawk part would have to be scratch built or bought from Budd. I don’t think any can be bought from a parts store. The Tundra Boss how ever started life as a stretched tri-pacer. Things like lift struts, gear, elevator jack screw, etc are piper parts, depending on the replacment required, you can buy it from any number of part stores or salvage yards. You would need to contact Nick Smith for a complete list of piper interchangeable parts.
4. The Bearhawk has quite a builders base with a number of Bearhawks flying. The Tundra Boss is new with a small builders base and none flying.
6. One critique I read called the Bearhawk a scratch built Maul. While Bearhawkers seem to take offense at that, I think the flight envelope of a Bearhawk will compare to a Tundra Boss like the flight envelope of the Maul compares to that of a stretched Tri-pacer.
7. For me, shipping the Tundra Boss to Alaska was much cheaper than the shipping the Bearhawk would have been.

I plan on using my Tundra Boss in the Alaskan bush, so for me the deciding factors were a better STOL and the having the choice of making replacement parts or buying certified replacement parts.

KelvinG

Steve Pierce
10-30-2005, 08:11 AM
The Maule did evolve from the Pacer when Mr. Maule left Piper. At least that is the way I heard it anyway.

gdafoe
10-30-2005, 08:31 AM
Could someone post a link to Bill Rusk's photo I can't seem to locate them.

LB
10-30-2005, 12:35 PM
Thanks Kelvin. That's good input. I'd like to make it the NC-AK trip someday, thus the thoughts of a utilitiarian plane, moreso than my RV-8. Ironically I live about 100 miles from Bob Barrows, but 1400 miles from Budd. :(


LB,
I gave strong consideration to a Bearhawk before I chose the Tundra Boss. In my opinion they are both pretty close to fulfilling

...

KelvinG

Gunny
10-30-2005, 12:46 PM
Could someone post a link to Bill Rusk's photo I can't seem to locate them.

http://supercub.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album96

From the main page in the current gallery - at the bottom of the page click the old Supercub.org photo gallery link. Then click on the Cub Driver Photo Albums link. Then go to page 6 in Cub Driver Photo Albums gallery and towards the bottom left you will find Bill's album. Hope that helps.

Bill Rusk
10-30-2005, 06:12 PM
Update

I ran the engine on the dyno at Poplar Grove Airmotive. Unfortunately their dyno set up is lacking ANY form of calibration so it was not a very good investment in time or money. The engine runs smooth and well but I have no idea what kind of Hp I am getting. I will find out when I put a prop on it and run it on the airplane. The engine is now pickled and set aside.

The wings, ailerons and flaps are covered in airtec. I still need to stitch and tape the left wing. I used the aero flash strobes for two reasons. They are lighter than Whelen and they are easier and lighter to install as you do not have to run shielded wire everywhere. There is some speculation that whelens may be a little brighter flash. I installed halogen automotive lights in the left wing. There are brighter units out there now but my research indicated the cost to be near 1000 dollars so I skipped that one. I chose to put lights in the left wing only to save weight. That is a personal choice. I am aware that there is some possible safety in more and brighter lights and also in pulse lights. Each person has to decide what they want and are comfortable with. The nice thing about experimental is you have lots of options.
I installed a safe air pitot mount in order to set up for the Dynon avionics. Again the primary emphasis is on weight savings.
I ordered the Micro VG's. They do not knock off much for experimental aircraft. I think the reduction was 100 dollars, so the total was still over 500 dollars. I honored their STC and the work they did to obtain it.
I took a lot of detail photos that I will try to upload. I ordered a set of photos from another individual and they were pretty much useless. I will try to post photos in my album to help others. I am not an expert nor am I an A&P so please keep that in mind. I will try to get the photos posted tomorrow.
I am still excited, having fun, and still very pleased with the Smith product and business practices.

Bill

PS. The puppy, Luke, is coming along nicely.

Bill Rusk
11-01-2005, 11:13 PM
I posted photos in the members gallery. Most photos have comments with them but they do not show up if you use the slideshow feature. You have to go one photo at a time if you want to see the comments.
Also a couple of photos of Luke.
These are pretty detailed photos. I will continue to do this if there is some interest.

Bill

Bugs66
11-01-2005, 11:43 PM
Thank you for posting the photos! I think any experimental builder greatly appreciates any photos they can get their hands on. The high res is appreciated too. Can you post your Safe Air pitot mount photos also? I plan to do that for my project. Where will you put your static line?

T.J.
11-02-2005, 02:18 AM
I've seen enough dang airplanes, I want to see the dog!

jnorris
11-02-2005, 10:42 AM
I posted photos in the members gallery.

Hi Bill,

Great photos! Looks like you're making good progress. Keep up the good work!!

Cheers!

Joe

Bill Rusk
11-02-2005, 11:07 AM
Bugs66

I posted some mount photos. I think the static port is on the pitot boom, hence the need to run a static line out the wing. Not 100% sure as I have not yet ordered all the stuff.

Also posted some nutplate location photos for the wing to fuselage fairing.

TJ

Posted some more photos of Luke just for you.

Thanks Joe


Bill

gdafoe
11-02-2005, 08:52 PM
Good pictures, Bill. I finally got to them. I'm putting an order together for supplies. Where did you find that purdy colored wire. Was look for some but I just found white. Also I've been trying to estimate how much to order. Anybody got an estimate, just getting going on the Smith Cub wings.

Ron B.
11-02-2005, 09:07 PM
Great photo's. I have to insist to my partner, he's the camera guy, to post our's. I can barely post messages let alone deal with photo's.
We missed the nutplates for mounting the wing fairing , what we'll do now for mounting them, I don't know? Our wings are complete and mounted on the fuselage.
Bill , the worst thing about you posting such detailed photo's is that it points out to others what they've missed. I thought we had done a great job on the wings until know, Thanks a lot!!!
Ron

Steve Pierce
11-02-2005, 09:12 PM
Ron, Use keyed rivnuts if you already covered your wings.

gdafoe
11-12-2005, 12:30 PM
Any of you that are building a Smith Kit using KITLOG? www.kitlog.com Looks like a good logging program and neat way to share pictures as you go. What do you think?

Bill Rusk
11-12-2005, 04:35 PM
Kitlog looks pretty cool. Thanks for the link.

Rib stitching

I took the needle and sanded the thread end flat , then used a jewelers file to make a small notch. It really helps when you are using the end of the needle to push the knot in the hole.

I posted some videos in my members photos file of how to rib stitch. If you use the Polyfiber manual and maybe these photos and videos it might help learn how to stitch. Hope it helps.

Bill

Bugs66
11-12-2005, 05:07 PM
For experimental, use the Staggerwing knot. Super easy and strong.

Bill Rusk
11-12-2005, 05:30 PM
Lots of ways to skin a cat but you left us hanging Buggsy. Where can we get info on how to tie this knot and is it not useable on certificated aircraft? Don't leave us hanging man.

Bill

Bugs66
11-12-2005, 05:50 PM
Ask and you shall receive:
Beechcraft Staggerwing Knot (http://www.supercubproject.com/afs/images/staggerwingknot.gif)

You can beat yourself up doing a modified seine if you want, but for experimental you can choose not to. Staggerwings do 200+ mph don't they? I learned how to tie both knots at Stewart's Hangar. Staggerwing is way, way easier and much faster. Just my opinion.

I believe the story is Beechcraft got this knot approved for the Staggerwing decades ago. No other manufacturer ever bothered to adopt it for theirs.

Bill Rusk
11-12-2005, 08:30 PM
Cool, another option.

Thanks

Bill

supilot
11-20-2005, 09:16 PM
To all those building smithcubs...

do you feel like the control sticks are too short and that the flap handle is too short and goes too far back?

the flap handle is positioned such that full flaps puts it behind the pilot requiring him/her to twist around to get them extended. extending them is not an issue at slow speeds, but is at the higher envelope speeds. a re-engineered handle with a L shape to it would allow proper leverage and position for flap extension.

....control stick. the control stick appears to be 6 to 8 inches too short. moving the stick full left and right finds it bumping up against my legs before hitting the stops. i never found the stops while in the seat. it is also low in position between the knees, making it desirable to put ones hand over the top of it rather than griping it. when you do that the mike gets keyed and stays hot

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_081.jpg

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_082.jpg

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_087.jpg

[/img]

behindpropellers
11-20-2005, 10:04 PM
Call me and I will mail you a couple of piper sticks to borrow or bring them over on friday..... Just let me know.

Crash
11-21-2005, 01:25 AM
Call me and I will mail you a couple of piper sticks to borrow or bring them over on friday..... Just let me know.

Is this a great bunch of guys (and ladies) or what? What a web site. Best one in aviation that I know of. Crash

Yard Dart
11-21-2005, 07:29 AM
I'll second that!

Cubus Maximus
11-21-2005, 11:17 AM
Yeah, the front stick is way too short. I sat in the Smith Cub a couple days ago to try it and felt very uncomfortable. There's lots of room so we were going to build up another one but then Craig called Nick and squawked. After telling him to lose some weight, Nick caved and will send a normal length control stick for the front seat. The rear stick seems the proper length after sitting back there. I haven't tried the flap handle yet, thanks for the heads up on that one.

Brad

Yard Dart
11-21-2005, 11:36 AM
Nick always gives you a 110 percent.

Bill Rusk
11-21-2005, 06:38 PM
I had Nick put the flap handle pivot/hinge point outboard rather than inboard. The normal SC flap handle attaches near the seat and curves outward. Mine attaches next to the fuselage structure and curves inward following the contour of the fuselage sidewall. I am hopeful this will make the flap handle less obstructive. I will post some pictures when I get home tomorrow evening.

Bill

supilot
11-21-2005, 07:26 PM
okay thanks a bunch for the info...

can somebody link me or post a picture of their overhead trim assembly? thanks -ben

Cubus Maximus
11-21-2005, 08:19 PM
Ben - do you want closer shots than this?

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7192&cat=559

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=7194&cat=559

If you need more let me know,

Brad

supilot
11-21-2005, 08:34 PM
thanks, just curious as to others' setups...still in the test flight/base number stage...

gripe is that there just isn't enough trim available. it is near the full up position for most operations thereby maxing it out for a lot of configurations

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_093.jpg

AkPA/18
11-21-2005, 10:04 PM
Ben

If this is the cub in the photo gallery with the huge flaps---it will pitch nose down instead of nose up like a standard cub when you extend the flaps( of course you know that--this is for others that have not flown those flaps). Is this when you are needing the nose up trim?? What other operations? Do you happen to know what trim range you have? Are you also running out of elevator on landing or do you have enough? Just curious.

Thanks

Mark

behindpropellers
11-21-2005, 10:07 PM
I sent your dad an email to check the jackscrew yoke and make sure it is not in upside down. I will bring the smartlevel over on turkey weekend.....

Steve Pierce
11-21-2005, 10:28 PM
I wondered about the jackscrew yoke also. Standard Cub should point up. Not sure on a Smith.

CptKelly
11-21-2005, 11:53 PM
My Smith's nose goes up when deploying flaps, not down. I find it interesting to see the trim handle on the left side. Mine is on the right, probably due to being a very early version.

Mike

AkPA/18
11-22-2005, 01:26 AM
Mike

I stand corrected. Sorry about the mis information. I could have swore the cubs I had flown with the flaps extended outboard pitched nose down instead of up. Thanks for setting me straight. Feeble memory!

Mark

supilot
11-22-2005, 12:24 PM
we have enough elevator for landing, but the trim is always within a few cranks of being at the max range. we need nose up trim for no flaps and note that when we did an engine out demo as we searched for best glide, there wasnt enough up trim to hold the airplane in a hands off condition.

CptKelly
11-22-2005, 02:32 PM
Supilot,
Really? What engine do you have. I currently am running a light wood prop with a XP-360, and my trim hardly changes at all, even with a passenger??? I have plenty of trim authority. Maybe you ought to run a weight and balance and see where you are right now? Are you sure your jackscrew is working?

Mike

supilot
11-22-2005, 08:07 PM
Supilot,
Really? What engine do you have. I currently am running a light wood prop with a XP-360, and my trim hardly changes at all, even with a passenger??? I have plenty of trim authority. Maybe you ought to run a weight and balance and see where you are right now? Are you sure your jackscrew is working?

Mike

XE-IO360 with constant speed MT setup

supilot
11-23-2005, 07:15 PM
not sure if these really help.......couple more in the album as well


http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_011.jpg
http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_004.jpg
http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_003.jpg
http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/565/medium/Picture_001.jpg

Steve Pierce
11-23-2005, 10:06 PM
The yoke should point up shouldn't it?

behindpropellers
11-23-2005, 10:14 PM
Nice grease fitting :oops:

Bill Rusk
11-24-2005, 08:44 PM
Pictures of my flap handle mounting. My aim by moving the flap mount outside is to minimize interference. I hope it will help.

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/Flap_handle_2.jpg


http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/Flap_handle_3.jpg

Bill

Yard Dart
11-24-2005, 09:38 PM
Nice flap handle.

supilot
11-25-2005, 12:43 AM
thanks for the pictures bill, i like it

jon
11-25-2005, 09:37 AM
Looks nice Bill, great idea!

Steve regarding the yoke, It is shown pointing down in the L21
maintenance handbook. Nick Smith helped install mine and he
also has it down. Just wondering if this is correct?

Thanks, Jon

supilot
11-25-2005, 11:12 AM
thats what we are trying to figure out....up or down?

Steve Pierce
11-25-2005, 11:40 AM
You are right. Getting my Piper's mixed up. Trim handle on the side, yoke is down, trim handle on the roof, yoke points up. Sorry. 3 Clippers a J3 and a Super Cub in the shop right now. I am confused. :crazyeyes:

6.6flylow
02-17-2006, 11:58 PM
Are there any flying yet? Updates

bsantana
02-18-2006, 12:43 AM
Nick Smith indicated that there have been over 100 kits sold and he estimates 40 or more flying as of Jan 1, 2006.

Bill Rusk
07-16-2006, 10:13 PM
Update

I had to relocate the lower bushing that the jackscrew goes into as it was not properly aligned and as a result the trim was binding. We used a cutoff wheel on a die grinder and cut it off then rewelded it in the proper position. I also had to reshape the bracket that the upper elevator spring attaches to.

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/thumbs/luke_ribbons_002.jpg
This shape does not bind.

http://sparky.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/thumbs/Trim_yoke_and_binding.jpg
This shape binds.

Bill

Bill Rusk
07-16-2006, 10:24 PM
Update

Side panels.

I am making my side panels out of .016 to save weight. There is a problem area around the door frame. There are no tabs and nothing to attach the panel to. The door frame is made with a folded edge. I pried up the fold just a small amount, then tapped a piece of .025 into the fold. It is very tight (if you don't open the fold too much) and creates a tab for you to put a nutplate on and attach the panel to.
See photos in my gallery.

Hope this helps someone else.

Bill

bsantana
07-22-2006, 10:49 PM
Bill,

I adopted a similar method for holding the interior panels at the door edges that I saw used by Steve Tubbs. I pried the folded edge open enough to insert the panel and it makes a clean finish if you don't mangle the folded edge (I did this in at least one spot). I am now thinking that this method, coupled with screws in tabs about 2" away is overkill. I'd leave out the screws if I was doing it over. I also broke the front side panels into two pieces to allow easier installation and removal.

Do you have L-21 glass or standard J window? If you have the standard J window, how did you handle the metal headliner?

Can't find your recent photos...can you provide a link? Thanks.

Barry

Bill Rusk
07-23-2006, 01:24 PM
Barry

Regular J windows. Have not tackled the headliner yet. Trying to find one so I don't have to re-invent the wheel.
Photos are in my album under Bill Rusk ie go to the B's.

Bill

Thanks for the input. I did the same thing part of the way and used the screws the rest of the way.

bsantana
07-23-2006, 09:54 PM
Bill,

I was successful in getting to your photo gallery! I was only getting a few shots the way I was accessing the gallery. You have some good photos that will be of great help for me along the way. Thanks for posting!

I felt the same way about the metal headliner. Nick was telling me to attach the top to the Z tabs on the overhead tubes, but I found that did not provide enough clearance for the flap cables in that area. I finally got frustrated working in 3D space with my patterns, saw a Dakota Cub metal headliner installation at the AK Airman's Show in May and purchased their headliner kit for the widebody airframe in June. It looked like it would be an easy fit with a little trimming, but it didn't turn out that way. Fortunately everything was too big and I just had to do a lot of trimming and redrilling of holes. If you consider going that way, let me know and I can fill you in on what you are getting into. Their kit was well made from excellent material. It was $320. It does provide a good starting point! Believe me, the Smith widebody is definately narrower than Airframe's certified widebody fuselage at the rear of the baggage compartment (~3"). They also have flap gap seal blanks available for $42 that will work if you have the round wing tips.

Barry

CptKelly
07-25-2006, 07:32 AM
Shoot, my Smith Cub doesn't have a headliner, but does have a really big greenhouse (L-21 type). Maybe that is one thing why it weighs 1143 pounds with a XP-360. In my humble opinion, lighter is better.

Mike

bsantana
07-25-2006, 01:23 PM
Mike,

I have been learning how heavy plexiglass is. Dis you use 1/8" plexi throughout? The headliner is made from 0.025" 5052H32 aluminum, probably heavier gage than needed, but stiff.

Barry

CptKelly
07-25-2006, 05:38 PM
Nah, I'm using 1/8(?) lexan. It doesn't crack so easily. I do not know why my cub is so light, but my wood prop saves 10-15 pounds by itself.
Its probably a little heavier now since I added the 8:50 tires and VG's.
Still leaves terra firma really quick, and goes up like an elevator. However, a 90 hp J3 will still beat it off the ground- from personal experience- - - -

Mike

Bill Rusk
08-19-2006, 06:36 PM
A very nice gent asked for some get started ideas. So here goes.

Tools
These are some of the things, other than common hand tools that I have needed and used.

A belt disc sander will be one of the most used tools in the shop.

Rivet squeezer with a 3 inch neck
#3 and #4 dimple dies
river squeezer dies
3-3, 3-4, 3-5 rivets
4-3, 4-4, 4-5 rivets
Both flush and regular
25 3/32 clecos, 25 1/8th clecos
Cleco pliers
Hand pop riveter
Rivnut installer Kit
Microstop Countersink
#30 and #40 pilot cutters for countersink
Centerpunch
Deburing tool
Drill jig for nutplates #6 and #8
Drills get a good set including lettered, numbered and fractional
Straight fluted hand reamers 1/8 to 3/8 in 1/16th increments
Dremel tool w/ accessories
Safety wire, get all 3 sizes plus pliers
Unibit drill bit -1 is about all you will need
Tin snips, left right and straight
Torque wrenches, one for foot pounds and one for inch pounds
Dial calipers
Tubing cutter
Tubing bender
Flaring tool
Tap and die set

Larger tools you will need some access to.... share, borrow, or rent
Compressor
Die grinder w/ cutoff wheel
Spray gun
Fresh Air breathing source
Sheet metal brake
Sheet metal Shear

This list is not all encompassing but should cover about 85% or so of what you will need in addition to the usual assortment of wrenches, screwdrivers, hammers, and stuff most folks probably already have.

One thing I have found invaluable is a good assortment of hardware. Ie AN nuts, bolts, screws etc. It is worth it to buy a little of just about every size, then at least you will be able to trial fit one and then know exactly what to order if you need more of that size. Might cost a couple hundred bucks but worth it.

I use J&L industrial supply for most of my machinist type stuff. 1-800-521-9520 to get a catalog and get on the mailing list for sale catalogs. I'm sure there are other ones but I have been pleased with them so far.

I'll try to post more when I think of it or answer questions as we go. Remember I am a new to this game too and I am not an A&P just sharing what I have learned so far to help my brothers out.

Bill
Chicago

Bill Rusk
10-21-2006, 06:10 PM
Painting info

Ok, so after a bit of research I decided to get a new paint gun. Tried HVLP and liked it a lot except that it is very hard to get a finish without orange peel. I wanted something that gets better atomization. The latest rage are the RP (reduced Pressure) guns. In short it is between a HVLP and the old high pressure guns. It still meets OSHA and EPA standards and in fact they are sometimes called "compliant" guns. It does blow more paint and has more overspray than the HVLP system but sure enough it has excellent atomization and lays on the paint with no tendency to get orange peel. I am quite impressed. Now if I can get my skills up to the level of the equipment I will be in tall cotton.

I purchased a Sharpe SHA5490 T-1 gun HVLP with a .8 set up. I then purchased the RP (CG Compliant) cap Sharpe SHA41012 and a 1.2 needle set up. The cup is a pressure cup and that also helps atomization. I also got a 2 qt pressure pot. I got a regulator at the gun so I know exactly what my pressure is at the gun. Running 38 PSI at the gun. I have a 5 hp compressor that pumps 12 CFM at 40 PSI and 10 at 90 PSI. These needle set ups are based on a pressure cup. If you use a gravity system you will need a larger set up, probably in the range of 1.4mm to 1.8mm. The Sata gun was recommended to me but as a non pro it was a little too much money, about 800 dollars, the Sharpe was about 300. I used SprayGun World on the internet.

I am doing the Air-Tech system. I used 1.5 coats of primer (thats 1 cross coat and 1 more pass 90 to the last) I sanded the snot out of it and it really sands nice. It is quite easy to make tapes disappear by just sanding. No need to lay the paint on thick to hide things just lots of sanding. 400 grit wet. Air-Tech recommends 3 cross coats of primer. I used 1.5 and think I will need to go to 2 cross coats. Just not seeing enough coverage but I definitely don't think you need three. Keeping it thin and light are my mantras.
I tried just 1 cross coat of paint but at least for white that does not give full coverage. I think it will require 1.5 or maybe 2 coats. Air-Tec again recommends three.
Pin holes can occur. It is amazing that tapes will disappear but that microscopic pin hole will stand out like a big zit on your face on prom night.
I think having a plastic sheet for the ceiling in my paint booth may be introducing extra dust. It attracts dust then moves around when the exhaust fans are on. Gonna have to fix that.

More to follow as I learn more.

Bill

Lance
10-21-2006, 06:54 PM
Hey Bill. Hope your build is going well. I hope to see it at NH this year.

What kind of weight are you shooting for? 160 or 180?

Lance

Steve Pierce
10-21-2006, 07:10 PM
Bill, Spray alcohol thru your paint gun on the plastic and the painting surface prior to shooting the paint. It breaks the staitic charge of the plastic and the paint surface from wiping and tacking. There used to be a product Air Tech sold for this and many paint stores sold but haven't been able to find. It smelled like rubbing alchol so that is what we have been using. Also we used a Sata on my Dad's fuselage with Air Tech thinned to 19 seconds with a Zahn cup.

What color are your shoes going to be? Si and I have AN Orange Yellow shoes from painting the Stearman. :lol:

JP
10-21-2006, 07:56 PM
We used prodigous amounts of rubbing alcohol to clean surfaces before a spray. Zahns cup per Steve, flows out nicely through the HVLP (Graco 3800). Had no problem with peel. The Air Tech paint is good stuff--tough, too.

Funny, but after awhile you develop a very good sense of how the paint is flowing out by the sound and look of the paint coming out of the gun.

harneymaki
10-21-2006, 08:08 PM
Ditto what Steve said. I had a big lint problem. Sanded everything out. Sprayed denatured alcohol just before paint (as per Steve's advice). Everything came out roses the next time. Thanks Steve.

Bill Rusk
10-22-2006, 05:58 AM
Lance, hope to have it at NH but at the rate I'm going....
less than 1100 pds, 160 hp but modified so getting a little better than 180 I think.

Steve, thanks for the advice, will try that, shoes are WHITE now. Mom was NOT impressed.

Bill

behindpropellers
10-23-2006, 10:10 AM
Bill, Spray alcohol thru your paint gun on the plastic and the painting surface prior to shooting the paint. It breaks the staitic charge of the plastic and the paint surface from wiping and tacking. There used to be a product Air Tech sold for this and many paint stores sold but haven't been able to find. It smelled like rubbing alchol so that is what we have been using. Also we used a Sata on my Dad's fuselage with Air Tech thinned to 19 seconds with a Zahn cup.

What color are your shoes going to be? Si and I have AN Orange Yellow shoes from painting the Stearman. :lol:

Hey Steve-

My AI has me shoot everything with enamel reuducer (dupont 3812) before painting it. Maybe I will try alcohol, would be much cheaper! Finally got my fuselage so I am putting the first coat of primer on it this week. Hope to get everything fitted in the next two months.

Tim

gdafoe
10-23-2006, 05:49 PM
Update

Side panels.

I am making my side panels out of .016 to save weight. There is a problem area around the door frame. There are no tabs and nothing to attach the panel to. The door frame is made with a folded edge. I pried up the fold just a small amount, then tapped a piece of .025 into the fold. It is very tight (if you don't open the fold too much) and creates a tab for you to put a nutplate on and attach the panel to.
See photos in my gallery.

Hope this helps someone else.

Bill

Bill, I picked up my fuselage in September, first one out of Jay's shop in MN. He has corrected a bunch of things including the tabs around the doors to mount the inside panels to. He has also fixed the problem with the jack screw alinement. I think they got a list of things to correct from Steve Tubbs and incorporated them all. I haven't gotten far enough on it yet to confirm everything is exact but Jay is pretty sure they have it all. They have done a very nice job on everything including the powder coat is much better than the control surfaces that I picked up in London. The new owner is really getting things organized.

Cubus Maximus
10-24-2006, 12:24 AM
Cool Gerald! I was wondering how things were going over in the shop but hadn't stopped by to see the operation since it got rolling. Problem is now that Cub fuselages are rolling out the door, Jay will NEVER finish his Starduster (the IO-540 sits on the floor next to the fuse looking forelorn...) I need to run over there.

Brad

gdafoe
10-24-2006, 02:01 AM
Yes, Jay has a lot going on there. I think he has four people full time on the Smith/Turbine Cubs, fixin on getting 10/month out the door. He has really done several improvements, now the trim crank shaft is mounted in sealed ball bearings, the cables all line up perfectly. The jack screw yoke is a thing of beauty CNC'd from a block of Aluminum.

gdafoe
11-07-2006, 08:13 PM
I need some pictures of the routing of fuel lines. I can find some pictures but I'm still not sure exactly where to route them. I have the CubCrafters drawings but need a bit more help. I've searched in the gallery but have not found what I need. I'm stalled out on the lines and don't know where to begin. So please somebody point me in the right direction here.

Bill Rusk
11-07-2006, 08:55 PM
Dual door or single door?

Bill

gdafoe
11-08-2006, 12:19 AM
Single, thanks I forgot that is rather important in this discussion.

Bill Rusk
11-08-2006, 06:21 AM
Gerald

Will send some in a few days. I'm on the road now.

Bill

musket
11-08-2006, 09:47 AM
gdafoe wrote on Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:01 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Jay has a lot going on there. I think he has four people full time on the Smith/Turbine Cubs, fixin on getting 10/month out the door. He has really done several improvements, now the trim crank shaft is mounted in sealed ball bearings, now the cables all line up perfectly. The jack screw yoke is a thing of beauty CNC'd from a block of Aluminum.




Can anyone provide a source for these trim crank shafts mounted in sealed ball bearings? I've heard that Smith / TCOW prefers not to sell parts.

TIA,
Musket

Bill Rusk
12-16-2006, 09:30 PM
Air Tech

Update. Arghhhhhh....
I have spent a couple of months of spare time trying to get some paint on things. The horiz surfaces were my first attempts. I sanded them extensively with 400 wet. I think I over did it. I got carried away. I actually prefer to see the tapes but I sanded them away cause I could I guess. When I layed on the paint I got pin holes all over the tapes. Unacceptable, so I color sanded and repainted. Got pinholes again. Bad. Still mostly confined to the tapes, not at the edge of the tapes, rather in the center of the tapes. Just not good at all.
So after a lot of sanding and painting I needed to figure out what was causing the problem.
1 I washed all the other parts, flaps, ailerons, wings and rudder with dawn dish washing liquid soap before primer. That may have helped.
2 I have used acetone as a final wipe for all my previous painting efforts of cars and other stuff. It has always worked great. Used it prior to Imron, lacquer, Centauri, Enamels etc etc. I used it on the horiz surfaces as a final wipe and it may have caused or contributed to the pin holes. It may have softened the glue and or primer base to cause a reactivation of the substrate so that it exhausted the vapors up through the topcoat causing the pinholes. But why only on the tapes? Don't know but I did not use it on the rudder and I only got 2 pinholes. Did not use it on a flap and got no pinholes. I also changed the airhose to insure that It was not blowing any contaminates. DO NOT USE ACETONE AS A FINAL WIPE. Use the alcohol as recommended.
3 Do not oversand the primer. It will not make any difference and may contribute to pinholes. I sanded the rudder with 400 grit but not nearly as aggressively as the horiz surfaces and it came out much better. Plus by not oversanding I can now see the tapes, and I like it that way.

1.5 coats of primer and 1.5 coats of paint. I used a med scotchbrite pad on the flap and a very little 400 grit in isolated places on the flap. It did not look as smooth as the rudder prior to color but it came out at least as nice as the rudder. Part of the learning curve is learning what will show up through the paint and what it will cover. The pro's know and so waste a lot less time. I have spent hours sanding and it was not helping at all. Oh well.

So...... lessons to share.


Wash with Dawn before primer.

1.5 coats of primer.

Sand and or scuff with med ( maroon color) Scotchbrite pad. Use 400 grit to get the stubborn dirt particles or other odd places, but it is not necessary to do an overall sanding with 400 grit and in fact may be detrimental. Also the Scotchbrite pad will leave the tape edges that sandpaper will hide. If you over do it you may want to spray more primer on. If you want to sand the tape edges away it is not hard to do but may require a second round of primer to avoid pinholes.

Final wipe with AirTech fabric wash, alcohol.
Spray one cross coat of paint. Wait about an hour at 70 degrees, then spray one more pass. This will show a little weave and the tapes.

So after all this I have a rudder and a flap painted to my satisfaction and I think I have figured out this paint system so hopefully I can move on a little faster now. I am going to have to recover the horiz surfaces in order to get them up to par. Bummer dude. I still really like this system and the faults are mine and not due to the Air Tech system. For the pro's out there I can see how this system would go much quicker than the others saving valuable shop time.

Just my 2 cents There are MANY others on this site that are more knowledgeable and better craftsman. Hope this helps.

Bill

Steve Pierce
12-17-2006, 12:15 AM
Don't cut the fabric yet Bill. There is a solution but I have been going nonstop since 6:00am and I can't think of it right now. I will remember after a good nights sleep.

Ron B.
12-17-2006, 08:13 PM
We had problems with pinholes until we installed a water filter right on our gun. We had them on the compressor but that wasn't enough.
Ron

jay cross
12-18-2006, 01:44 AM
Are you using anything cntaining silicone in your shop? Armorall or any thing with silicone has no place around paint. It will float all over and cause pinholes.

pokey
12-18-2006, 10:18 PM
Does anyone have a source for a overhead trim lever for the Smith cub. I have heard mention of a sealed ball bearing one??? Ideas before I head down to univair would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Bill

gdafoe
12-18-2006, 10:49 PM
Pokey, you need to call Jay at 218-829-9320 he makes them.

Ron B.
12-19-2006, 05:02 PM
A home window crank will work!

Bill Rusk
01-19-2007, 09:19 AM
Update

Pinholes

The definitive answer on pinholes and Airtec paint. If the primer is too thin the topcoat will go through the primer and activate the glue causing the pinholes. If you go with just 1.5 coats of primer don't sand the glued area. Scotchbrite only. You can sand the open areas where there are no tapes and/or glue but not the glued areas. If you want to do sanding use more primer. 2 or 2.5 would probably work. So in hindsight it was not the acetone final wipe, it was not the contaminants, and not the equipment, just over-agressive sanding and trying to use minimum materials.

Airtec recommends 3 coats of primer.

Guess I should have followed the directions. Duh

Bill

Bill Rusk
03-01-2007, 07:27 PM
Underseat Baggage

The Stoddards "Tool box Homebuild Wide" does not fit and can not be made to fit. Part #MI 037. It is too deep and so sits proud of the crossmembers and its width interferes with the rudder cables. Waisted 85 bucks and 33 for shipping. Are we having fun yet? It is a nice unit, just will not fit a widebody Smith PA-18 airframe.

Bill

bsantana
03-01-2007, 08:08 PM
Underseat Baggage

The Stoddards "Tool box Homebuild Wide" does not fit and can not be made to fit. Part #MI 037. It is too deep and so sits proud of the crossmembers and its width interferes with the rudder cables. Waisted 85 bucks and 33 for shipping. Are we having fun yet? It is a nice unit, just will not fit a widebody Smith PA-18 airframe.

Bill

Bill,

I had a similar problem with a Dakota widebody metal headliner for my widebody Smith Cub. The AK Airframes widebody fuselage that is the standard is a different width and taper than the Smith fuselage. At the front of the cabin (adjacent to the pilots seat) it is about the same. The Smith fuselage tapers more rapidly than the AK Airframes fuselage, it appears. The "J" windows are also shaped differently than Piper's. I was able to get the disassembled headliner kit to fit by trimming the top piece and the side window cut-outs. I guess that's the experimental category!

Barry

Bill Rusk
03-03-2007, 05:20 PM
Someone asked about seats recently (sorry I can't remember who it was) but anyway here is the info.

The front seat bottom w/ composite board = 2p 11.7oz
The front seat back w/ composite board = 2p 1.0oz
The rear seat bottom w/ plywood bottom = 4p 15.5oz
The rear seat back w/ composite board = 5p 0.0oz

The rear seat back is larger than the bottom thus the nearly equal weight between composite and ply boards. If I can find a composite panel for the bottom that meets my needs I may be able to save a little weight .
These seats will be comfortable for a couple of hours around the local area but they are not Oregon Aero or Fine Line. When I take the long X/C I will have to look into a piece of Temper Foam to put under my hiney. :D
I would be quite interested in the weights of the Oregon Aero, Fine Line, (or the ones Nick Smith was selling) seats if someone wanted to take a set to the post office and weigh them. Thanks.


Bill
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Painting_007.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Painting_005.jpg

bsantana
03-03-2007, 05:58 PM
Bill,
I bought the seats that Nick was selling (made in Quebec I believe). Here are the weights to the nearest ounce:

Front seat, back cushion - 8lb. 8 oz.
Front seat, bottom cushion - 3lb. 9 oz.
Rear seat, back cushion - 3lb. 3 oz.
Rear seat, bottom cushion - 4lb. 6 oz.

No front seat frame or rear seat plywood bottom or back included. The fron seat assembly was 16 lb. 9oz. The seats look comfortable, but a 3 hour flight will determine if the weight is worth it.
Barry

Bill Rusk
03-29-2007, 10:37 PM
Air Tech

Well folks, time to offer some input. Having done the Air Tech system, and also watched my neighbor do his Jr Ace project in Stitts, I will use Stitts next time, maybe when I get back to the Hatz biplane. The Air Tech system is not bad and in the hands of a pro it may be the best system as I think it may go on faster than Stitts, but it seems that it is less tolerant of errors and so is tougher for an amateur to get a really nice finish. I know......"it is a poor carpenter that blames his tools". The Air Tech goes on thick and heavy. If you mess up it is difficult to sand it down and re-coat. After about 2 or maybe 3 coats it is thick enough that I feel you would end up with cracks in the finish in a year or two. I tried very hard to keep it thin and as a result encountered pinhole and coverage problems. I know others have used it and had success with it and I don't feel my job is bad but I feel the Stitts would have been better. I may be wrong as the applicator may very well be the limiting factor. I am still working with it and have a few more things I would like to try, but for those who may be sitting on the fence, my input as a amateur, is to go with Stitts. I think the Stitts may be less expensive also.

Another input. Do not use padding on the leading edges of the wing unless you are doing a restoration and trying to cover up an older leading edge skin. With new LE skins I think you are better off without it.

Folks this is just my opinion. I am not an A&P nor am I particularly talented or knowledgeable. Just trying to help fellow builders.


Bill

Crash
03-30-2007, 12:27 AM
Bill Rusk, looks like you're doing a great job on your Smith PA-18 project. Best wishes for it's completion and your successful first flight.

Take care.

Crash

Bill Rusk
04-08-2007, 10:35 AM
I was asked about my upper baggage compartment so here is some data.

I made a Z bend at the top of the aft wall of the lower compartment like this

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Rear_bag_3.jpg

This captures the upper aft wall between the sheetmetal and the floor. I then attached the aft wall to the stringers with a couple of "L" shaped nut plate brackets like this

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_029.jpg

This is my ELT mount. .050 AL bolted to the frame.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/ELT_Mount.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/ELT_Mount_2.jpg

Bill Rusk
04-08-2007, 10:44 AM
Here are a few more photos on the subject. The upper floor is in two pieces. The forward part is captured under the door opening so only has two screws on the other side to hold it down.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Picture_020.jpg

Here is an overall shot.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Picture_0193.jpg

And the final iteration. I shot a coat of white paint on the composite flooring to brighten things up a bit.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_028.jpg

Hope this helps.

Bill

Alex Clark
04-19-2007, 09:59 PM
I am kinda amazed that

smirciat "New guy on the site"

Has not got into this one. he built his 180 hp Smith S.C a while back and I think he took some good photos of the whole process.
Since he is selling it for a bigger family plane, I was down at the airport eyeballing it again today.

alex

Bill Rusk
04-28-2007, 08:15 AM
I was somewhat skeptical when Nick Smith sold the business as to how things would work out. I have had a couple of dealings with Wayne, Sharon, and Joel and have been quite impressed. I know they are working hard on a builders manual and photo Disc which will add immeasurably to the ease of construction. I believe lead time is down also.

I believe this is a good option for a experimental Supercub. The other options that I know of are Dakota Cub, Wag Aero, and The Legend Cub folks have recently announced a kit; however, I don't think theirs would be a Supercub but more of a fancy PA-11, ie it would not have the Gross weight capacity.

At this point, I don't know of anyone building a Dakota kit or a Wag kit. If you are lurking out there how about a progress report and product review?

Based on posts on this site I count about 30 Smithcub builders and or flyers.

Bill

Bill Rusk
09-17-2007, 08:43 PM
Been awhile. Sorry.

Rear Seat.

I used a composite honeycomb for the rear seat back. Very light but composites do have some disadvantages in certain structural properties. I wanted the back and bottom to be easily removable to get the extended flat floor. The seat bottom is the plywood supplied in the kit for durability and strength. I installed 4 cam locks, 2 per side on the floor rails. I hinged the seat bottom as in the photos. I then made a seat back brace from .040 and it attaches to the floor with the cam locks. This gives a solid brace for folks to push their lower back against and should provide for good longevity. The top of the seat back sits against the removable crossbar. It will be held in place on the top with a strap and snap around the crossbar. The rear seat back can then be removed by 1 snap, 4 quarter turn camlocks remove the brace, the bottom cushion will have 4 snaps in the corners.
The cushions are foam. A 1/2 inch layer of petty dense foam on the bottom and a 1.5 inch softer foam on top. Essentially a poor mans version of the Oregon Aero layering technique.
Hope this helps. More to follow.

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_025.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_026.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_012.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_011.jpg

Bill Rusk
09-17-2007, 08:52 PM
I used the Dakota cub brakes. Tried to get as much metal under the mounting feet as possible. I was not really worried too much about perfect placement as the rear seat is not the PIC seat.

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_021.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_022.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/MIsc_038.jpg

Bill Rusk
09-17-2007, 09:51 PM
Electric trim.

At Oshkosh this year I was speaking to Nick Smith about electric trim. In my distant past I helped a friend put electric trim in his Hatz Biplane and I really liked the way it came out. It was very nice to fly and trim without having to take your hands off the controls, kinda like fighters where everything is under your fingers on the stick and throttle. But I could not get my head around how to do it with a jackscrew. I was thinking sprockets, pulleys, and all kinds of stuff and a bystander mentioned that the Carbon Cub had electric trim. Off I went. One look, the light came on and I was on a mission.
Mark Rusche (MMR on this site) the mechanical engineer, was my resource. The guy is smart, thanks Mark. He said go to McMaster-Carr, I pulled a motor from their catalog, Part # 6409 K18, a 12 volt DC gearmotor. Got a coupling from them also, Part #6208 K142 and Houston we have ignition.
The motor does 50 RPM so the speed should be about right. Torque seems good but I really will not know till I fly it. This is the "experimental" part of home-building.
I wanted a trim indicator and this is where it got a bit complicated. MMR to the rescue....he says, use a string pot. I say hugh? A little time with google and I have my answer. Well actually it was a lot of time with google, the phone and Mark. At any rate, a string pot was ordered from Unimeasure Part # JX-PA-3.8. Now.... this is a linear transducer that sends a signal to the Dynon unit which has a trim indicator tape in its display, if you feed it the right inputs. The RV boys have it all set up with Ray Allen Equipment but us Cub guys are blazing a new trail. I have not got the Dynon unit yet so I am not 100% sure this will work but all the engineering types seem to think it will. I am at the 99%.
I also had to put a bushing and bolt above the jackscrew to prevent it from coming up. The pulley did/does that on the manual system.
I was hoping to save a little weight but it looks like it will be a wash on weight, but it will be very nice to trim without taking my hands off the controls and it sure cleaned things up. You could get by without the trim indicator, IE set it on the ground prior to take off, then after that it is all by feel so who cares where the trim is. That would save about 10 oz from the manual system. The manual system with all brackets, pulleys , cables, handle, nuts, bolts etc weighs 2p 3.5oz. A bit nerve racking to cut all that out. I'm pretty well up a creek if this does not work. Oh well, no guts no glory. All the new stuff weighs 2p 5oz (maybe less, I left all the wires quite long till I get the Panel in).
I also installed limit switches (per MMR again) to stop the motor at the ends of the travel to prevent overheats, motor damage etc.

Just another idea.

Bill



http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_004.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_006.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_009.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_010.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_011.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_013.jpg

Bill Rusk
09-17-2007, 09:55 PM
More electric trim photos.





http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_015.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_018.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Elect_Trim_016.jpg

Steve Pierce
09-17-2007, 10:07 PM
Bill, How does the jackscrew rotate if it is bolted to the tower?

JimC
09-18-2007, 03:40 AM
Bill, where did you get your composite honeycomb material and what is the approximate cost?
Thanks,
JimC

Bill Rusk
09-18-2007, 07:57 AM
Steve

Photo is deceptive. That is a bushing that sits on top of the jackscrew that has a bolt through it.

JimC

I stumbled on that in a barn. The guys brother used to do corporate jet interiors and he had some left over. I got it really cheap. I think you can get the same stuff from Steve Tubbs at Performance Air but I think it runs about 700 dollars a 4x8 sheet. You might also speak to Paul Romine on this site out of Indianapolis. Very knowledgeable of composites and building a Smithcub.

Bill

Tim
09-18-2007, 11:23 AM
Bill, I wouldn't cover this thing, I'd put it together uncovered and put it in a museum. How can you cover up all that beautiful work. :D

Tim

paul romine
09-18-2007, 01:50 PM
Hi Bill, Looks great! I also used CF for replacement of all the wood in my seats. Man, REAL HEAVY!
I bonded in a 1/4"dowell on each side of the rear back support and drilled holes in the flour for the dowells to locate in, like my Top Cub.
Also my seat bottoms are also CF. I didn't use honeycomb, just 2 layer lay ups and they are plenty ridged. No wood in my Cub.
All the electricall and panel is installed and I hope to install the interior pieces and start covering thefuselagee next week.
Your work looks great.
Paul

Bill Rusk
09-19-2007, 09:18 PM
Paul

Man you are really moving along. I am anxious to see your project. You have done some neat stuff.

Water Rudder Pulley Brackets

I cut the water rudder pulley brackets off the lower longerons and welded in some flush plates, put in a couple of nutplates, and will use eyelet bolts when I need too. I took this idea from a Crash suggestion in this thread

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5931



This is where the brackets used to be on the std. Smithcub. I cut them off.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_001.jpg

This is the new right bracket flush and into the corner.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_002.jpg

This is the left side bracket.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_003.jpg

This is what it looks like when it is done.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_005.jpg

It is not a big deal but it will clean things up a bit.

Hope it helps someone.

Bill

Paul
10-03-2007, 08:35 PM
Does anybody know which Polyfiber yellow is the closest match to the yellow used by the powder coater for the Smith kits?

Paul

JayH
10-03-2007, 10:11 PM
Paul,
My fuselage was the first yellow one to come out of Brainerd. I was after 143 Cub Yellow. Jay took the Poly Fiber chart down to the powder coater to try and get as close to that as they could. I just went out to the shop to hold the chart up to the airplane. 145 Lockhaven Yellow is darn near a perfect match. I see 143 Cub Yellow is visibly darker. I still like 143 - I like that just a little deeper tone. So I will probably still go with 143. Couple things here - 1) I think what yellow on the frame you still see after cover is minimal enough to blend right in and go real nice. And 2) Most of those yellows on the chart are like trying to put white, off white, sandstone, or egg shell on your walls in the basement - after they have been there for a day, you forgot what you were comparing it to. Anyway, long answer to a short question - 145 Lockhaven Yellow is almost a perfect match on my fuselage. Hope this helps.

Jay

Bill Rusk
10-05-2007, 09:21 PM
Had a question on how I did my water rudder retract tube so I am posting this in the hopes that it helps whoever needs it.

Tube is 3/8 .035 4130 bent very carefully in a tubing bender like you would use for fuel line. Gotta really get with it as it sure is a lot tougher than aluminum. Plate is .040 about 2.25 inches square. Tig welded. I used a string and tried to get the tube welded into the plate at the proper angle so the cable will come out straight up to the handle mounting/hanger point. I put it on the left side so that I can keep the stick back with my right hand while using the retract handle with my left. Personal preference. I used blind nuts under the floor board. I will make a AL cover plate to use when on wheels and a cap plug will seal the hole on the bottom of the aft boot cowl where the tube exits.
Hope this helps.

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_028.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_030.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_031.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_032.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_033.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_034.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Water_Rudder_Brackets_035.jpg

Bill Rusk
10-07-2007, 12:30 PM
Here are some of the things I have tried to do to keep my Smith Cub light. I have not finished yet so I have no idea if all this is worth it or not.
The day I weigh it will be interesting indeed.

Single door
Std wings and tips
No extended LE
Std fuel
No extended glass
Single landing light, no pulse system
Aero Flash unit, lighter than Whelen
Tail stinger light but no strobe
0-320 souped up
Straight engine mount
Composite honeycomb for baggage and seats
Dual density foam in seats, not temperfoam
D shaped windows and door plexiglass is .080
rest is .100
Interior panels are .16 Vs .020 or .025
Fabric headliner
Dynon Instruments
Removed all tabs on Fuselage that are not being used
Light alternator, battery,starter
No heel plates on floorboards
No interior cargo light
No fishing pole tube
No extended metal belly except rear 3 feet
Planning wood or composite prop

I am sure I will think of other ideas as I go but these are some things to think about.

Bill

Bill Rusk
10-07-2007, 12:51 PM
Here are some photos of the beginnings of my fabric headliner. If I were going to work the airplane in Canada or Alaska I would opt for the metal but I'm not, (and can't, its experimental) so I think this will do fine. Should save about 5 pounds. I did leave the tabs here in the event it does not work out I can still subsequently install a metal unit.
JMBrietinger also did one of a different type with the input of Jim Drometer. There used to be some photos of his, it is very nice, but I could not find them.

Hope this helps someone.

Bill


http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_water_rudder_BMW_008.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_water_rudder_BMW_012.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_water_rudder_BMW_028.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_water_rudder_BMW_029.jpg

gdafoe
10-07-2007, 04:04 PM
Bill, I'm going to do a similar thing on the fabric head liner. How did you do the top corners so the fabric does not pull away from the corner. That inside corner has me stumped.

Rob
10-07-2007, 11:37 PM
Hi Gerald,
I could be wayyyy wrong here, but it looks to me like 4 pieces. The top glued in first with the edges wrapped around the top deck tubes. Then the sides glued to the top and into the windows etc... and then the back... Bill??? BTW Gerald, I tried to email you some pictures this weekend and your Starband address rejected it. Did you change emails?

Take care, Rob

Bill Rusk
10-08-2007, 06:44 AM
Rob

You are correct. Four pieces. Sides go in first, then back, then top. Hard part is the sides of the rear piece. Not much surface to glue to. After it is all in I will put a L shaped bracket down the sides of the rear corners to lock/clamp the fabric in place to insure it does not vibrate loose.

Bill

gdafoe
10-08-2007, 05:26 PM
Thanks guys that helps! Now if I could figure out how you all get the fabric so neatly glued to the interior of the window bows, for both the inside fabric and the exterior fabric, without qubbering it up so much you don't have room to get the plexiglass set in there too. :crazyeyes:

paul romine
10-10-2007, 09:07 AM
Kinda of off the subject, but what max weight are you guys putting on your data plates for your Smith, TCOW?
I guess I can just make one up?
PR

Bill Rusk
01-11-2008, 08:56 PM
Covering.

Razor blades don't last long. Get a bunch and change them often.

Half a wooden clothes pin works well for tucking the fabric into the window channels. You need to wipe the glue off with acetone after each use. If the glue builds up on the wood or your fingers it will stick to the finger or clothes pin and not what you want it to, ie window channel.

A piece of angle makes a good thing for marking a line when covering to keep the glue edge smooth or align tapes. Just drag it along with the pencil at the same time. Use the size that you need. You can get it at Home Depot in 1/2, 3/4, 1 inch etc. Or bend your own.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Fuselage_Covering_002.jpg

Ends up like this.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Fuselage_Covering_003.jpg

Works on the fuselage too, like this tape edge.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Fuselage_Covering_020.jpg

I am not a pro folks, just sharing a few things I have learned along the way. I uploaded more photos into my gallery, mostly fuselage covering shots but also some interior photos, as someone asked. It will help give at least an idea of the shapes. I will have to re-make the left side panel as I don't have any trim stuff there anymore. Hope it helps.

Bill

Bill Rusk
03-08-2008, 12:11 PM
Here is a little more info and photos on the fabric headliner. I got a bit more orange peel in the paint than I'd like so I'll have to do a bit of color sanding and cleanup, but it'll do. In hindsight I could probably have cleaned up some of the bumps by cutting the tabs off or attaching structure to glue the fabric to but ......
I am not suggesting that anyone follow this technique but if you want to use it to make a decision, or if you do go this route, perhaps this will help. It should minimize weight and help with headroom.
There are more photos in my gallery.

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_007.jpg
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_001.jpg
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_014.jpg

Here are a couple of photos of the fuselage paint.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_013.jpg
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Headliner_011.jpg

Hope this helps other Smithcub builders.

Bill

cafi19
03-08-2008, 12:54 PM
I like it! Wouldn't have thought of doing that!

cafi

Ruidoso Ron
03-08-2008, 01:22 PM
Bill, that looks wonderful! Is the orange-peel that you are getting in polyurethane?

Steve Pierce
03-08-2008, 08:36 PM
Bill, Check your front wing attach fittings. The two aluminum blocks that sandwich the spar should have a 3/8" OD x 5/16" ID steel bushing pressed into the wing attach hole. I just did some work on an early Smith Cub and there was no bushing. There was a 5/16" bolt holding the wing on in a 3-8" hole. :o

Your airplane is looking great. Hope to see it at New Holstein.

Bill Rusk
03-08-2008, 08:53 PM
Ron--Air Tec Polyurethane

Steve-- Thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out.

Bill

Bugs66
03-09-2008, 12:41 AM
Nice work Bill! I'm jealous! Will catch up soon. Keep up the great work!

StewartB
03-09-2008, 01:18 PM
It looks very nice. I like the bright white interior. I wouldn't keep it clean, but it sure is pretty.

I don't think I'd spend any time polishing the orange peel, if it's possible at all. I can't polish Imron, I know that. I'd just tell people it's the newest color of Zolatone. White on white. The new rage. Honestly, I doubt anyone will notice and doubt even more that anyone would criticize, unless you're planning to show it. Burning through the paint at an edge or over a hard point will leave you with bigger problems.

Stewart

Bill Rusk
06-09-2008, 04:58 PM
Folks

It has been awhile since I have posted. I am now getting into the electrical, panel and firewall forward. I suspect there will be lots of info, however misguided, forthcoming. Things have been a little slow.

Here is kinda where we are now.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Fuselage_002.jpg

This is the beginnings of my panel. Actually all that is missing are the rocker switches indicated by the white paper blocks. These will be lighted rockers. Here is a source link for rocker switches. http://www.aerocraftparts.com/Categories.aspx?Category=38940ec0-b260-4e9f-a23c-b80ff8e89c67

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Inst_Panel_008.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Inst_Panel_010.jpg

I know there are those who will think this is a ridiculous panel especially in a cub but there is some logic in my choices.
It is much lighter than a comparably equipped round dial panel.
It probably weighs less than a VFR panel. The Dynons weigh 1.8 pds each and the AvMap is very light.
It does allow for emergency IFR (ie if you unintentionally end up in the clouds you will be able to keep from going out of control.)
It is all back lit so no extra post lighting for night ops.
It is about as simple as I can come up with.
I went w/ AvMap Vs Garmin 496 because I liked the larger flat screen and they announced sat wx availability.
Although I like the cub round dials I think I am going to like this even better. Personal opinion. The great beauty of experimental is the freedom to customize it any way you want.


I have started the cowling.



http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Inst_Panel_007.jpg

And here is my battery box for the UltraBat-13 battery from Aircraft Spruce. Weighs 10 pounds.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Inst_Panel_011.jpg

More to follow.

Bill

skywagon8a
06-09-2008, 05:37 PM
Bill,
What type of exhaust system are you using? It looks like the muffler is forward with an aft tail pipe. I like the idea of there being no components up against the firewall.

iamcamper
06-09-2008, 06:25 PM
Looking good Bill.
I hope to start covering mine in a couple of months.
If you dont mind, could you shed some light on how you mounted your AvMap flush like you did? I'm wanting to mount mine like that also so any ideas would help. Much cleaner looking than the docking station from Air Gizmoos.
Thanks.
Ted

Bill Rusk
06-09-2008, 06:27 PM
The exhaust was purchased from Steve Tubbs at Performance Air in Caldwell ID. It is a crossover style with two into one on each side. The tail pipes are on a ball which allows for adjustment in where and how they exit the bottom cowl. My understanding is that it was probably made by Clinton Anderson at this link http://www.customaircraft.com/
Clinton makes lots of variations and Tubbs knows what fits and works on a SC, plus I don't think he gets much mark up so I would personally recommend going through Steve if you are interested in this muffler. Experimental only!

Bill

bobnall
06-09-2008, 06:52 PM
Nice, Bill, very, very nice. Looking forward to seeing it. See you in NH this year?

Bob

Bill Rusk
06-09-2008, 07:05 PM
Electrical Notes

I thought I might like to use a direct drive alternator from B&C
http://bandcspecialty.com/
but after adding up my electrical loads I do not think it would be wise in my case.

The draws are as a result of product specifications(#) or my own testing with a multimeter. (*)

Tail light - non strobe - just a white stinger light = 1.9 amps*
Nav Light - Aeroflash unit per wing = 1.8 total= 3.6amps*
Strobes - Aeroflash unit per wing = 1.8 total= 3.6amps*
So just the day running lights equals 9.1 amps*
Landing and taxi lights automotive Optilux halogen each 4.23amps* total= 8.5amps*
Dynon Engine Display 1.0amps#
Dynon Flight Display 1.5amps#
AvMap GPS 1.0amps#
GTX-320A Transponder 1.0amps#
ICOM 210A Radio 1.5 amps resting up to 5 amps Xmit 1.5amps#
Master relay 1.0amps
Misc

You are at 17 amps in normal flight and well above that with the landing lights on or when transmitting. I guess the bottom line is that an 8 amp or even the 20 amp direct drive alternators are going to be a real stretch unless you plan your loads early on in the build process.
This is where using LED nav, position, strobes would be a big help but I don't know if they have the same illumination capability yet. I know they are getting better all the time. My alternator (40amp) weighs 6pds 1 oz which is just a few ounces more than the B&C 20 amp direct drive unit. Where you would save weight would be the lack of the belt and you could lighten the flywheel by removing the belt groove and putting some lightning holes in it. This is advocated by Mike Olsen builder of the cub Cazoom seen at the Valdez and the Alaska Trade Show this year. I do not know how he got his amp draw down but if you are interested I am sure he would talk to you. He was very helpful when I visited with him at the Trade Show. Here is a picture of the front of Cazoom.



http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Alaska_Trade_Show_08_041.jpg

More to think about.

Hope it helps

Bill

behindpropellers
06-09-2008, 09:06 PM
Bill-

I would go with the LED's. I know they are making LED strobes now too.

Looking great. It doesn't matter how long it takes as long as your work is meticulous.

Tim

jnorris
06-10-2008, 01:41 PM
Hey Bill!

Looking darned good!! Gonna be a nice airplane for sure!

I just did a certification inspection on a Smith Cub right in my "back yard". Well at Fond du Lac anyway! VERY nice airplane! One of the nicest homebuilts I've certificated to date. I think yours would probably rank right up there too.

Cheers!

Bugs66
06-10-2008, 02:00 PM
Bill,
Looking great!! I went with the Plane Power 60amp. What a nice little package that is. It is belt drive though.

I am doing under seat battery with Odyssey PC680.

If you follow Bob Nuckolls (AeroElectric) Z-11 drawing he eliminates the master relay 1amp draw.

I think I will bite the bullet and get that Custom Aircraft exhaust too. Sure is a nice unit.

What prop are you going with?

Bill Rusk
11-18-2008, 08:23 PM
Cowling is done. Off to the paint booth.

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/cowl_001.jpg
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/cowl_003.jpg
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/cowl_004.jpg
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/cowl_012.jpg
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/cowl_013.jpg

Cubus Maximus
11-18-2008, 09:55 PM
Very cool Bill! :D

But first thing to go MUST be the die springs... :-?

(Boing Boing BOING Boing boing boing boing boing....)

cafi19
11-19-2008, 06:44 AM
Looks great Bill!

cafi

JP
11-19-2008, 07:46 AM
Wow, Bill, that is fantastic! What superb craftsmanship!

I love the panel. Now, I'm generally a luddite when it comes to panels, but after experiencing the FedEx Lou Miracle I'm a changed cat.

CptKelly
11-27-2008, 08:31 PM
Actually, I have gotten to like my die spring landing gear. It forces you to become a better pilot, and teaches you not to have much vertical velocity when your wheels touch. Also, you do not need to change them every couple of years like the bungees... I expect if using the large Bushwheels, you wouldn't even know what kind of "spring" you were using. My Smith Kit has around 130 hours on it now, and I'm enjoying it. I also like the exp catagory because if I want to change something, I don't have to ask permission from the Fed.

Mike

FdxLou
11-28-2008, 11:03 AM
Mike

Smith Cub die spring is much better than the bungee setup until...

You start operating off airport in short rough strips that require heavy braking.

Once I put the AOSS system on my Smith it was much easier to handle the real rough strips...the die springs wanted to launch you airborne over rough uneven terrain and on big rocks.

Lou

Cubus Maximus
11-28-2008, 12:48 PM
Dittos

Dave Prizio
03-23-2009, 12:57 PM
Anyone have current contact info for Smith Cubs? A web site? I have Googled Smith Cub and not found anything that looked right. Thanks for the help.

Bugs66
03-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Anyone have current contact info for Smith Cubs? A web site? I have Googled Smith Cub and not found anything that looked right. Thanks for the help.

Smith no more. Now www.tubinecubs.com

Dave Prizio
03-24-2009, 12:44 PM
Thanks for the info. I knew they had to be somewhere.

Bill Rusk
07-04-2009, 10:44 AM
Folks

I fell off the face of the Earth for awhile. I'm back, but re-entry was turbulent. I took a break from the Cub but have started to work on it again. Here are a couple of photos of the paint on the cowl. The scheme is a little different from the factory but not too weird I hope.


http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cowl_Paint_014.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cowl_Paint_016.jpg


I also built a float dolly so I could move the floats around the hangar and out of the way. The top crossbar assembly bolts on after the lower float is laid down. That way you do not have to thread the lower float under a crossbar. Makes it easier in the event your helper is not very strong.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/84-06_reunion_017.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/84-06_reunion_024.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/84-06_reunion_025.jpg

Here is a link to a very light wire in the #2 or #4 size for the battery to starter cable. This will save a couple of pounds or more depending on where you place your battery. I'll try to post some more electrical stuff in the next few days.

http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm


Hope this helps

Bill

DW
07-04-2009, 11:41 AM
Bill good to see you back on the site, Your project is looking great, how far are you with the wings? any chance it will fly this year? Keep plugging along your way ahead of me.

DW

bobnall
07-04-2009, 11:42 AM
Bill, that looks really nice. I like it and looking forward to seeing it completed.

Bob

cafi19
07-07-2009, 01:00 PM
Looks Great!

I'll refer to this often to keep me inspired. I have a long way to go!

cafi

Minaki
07-07-2009, 03:21 PM
Glad to see your back at it Bill. You will soon be rewarded with a Cub that flies as great as it looks! See you at NH?

Jim

Steve-N1964S
07-07-2009, 09:52 PM
Glad to see you back on-line Bill. I hope "things" are a little more settled for you :-). Hope to see you at NH.

Steve

Bill Rusk
08-05-2009, 04:18 PM
I spent some time after Oshkosh working on the wings. Here is a photo of the installation of the VG's. I used the Micro kit. It is super complete and has great instructions. I have nothing to add.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_wings_and_tanks_001.jpg

Then I worked on the tank covers. One thing you will encounter is that you will cover all of your holes for screws when you cover the wings or whatever. I used a needle from the backside where I could get to it. This then gives a small locater hole.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_wings_and_tanks_003.jpg

I then used a small soldering iron like this

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_wings_and_tanks_006.jpg

To burn the hole out larger so the screw would fit without getting all tangled up in the fabric. Like this

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_wings_and_tanks_004.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_wings_and_tanks_005.jpg

This also works really well on the interior side panels that you cover with fabric. It is a nice clean way to open up screw holes. You won't set things on fire unless you leave the iron in and go to lunch or something.

I had a chance to fly this Hatz to Oshkosh this year and tried to get it to NH in time to give a few rides but it took so long to get out of the show on friday that I missed most of you. I will have it at the Brodhead MAAC Grass roots fly-in this fall and will give rides as promised.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/067157.jpg


Bill

cafi19
08-05-2009, 04:49 PM
Sorry I missed you when you came back Bill.

I needed a nap or I was going to get crabby! The cub is looking great.

Tied up some loose ends here finally and will hopefully be started back on mine again soon. I know...baby steps. Work a little every day.

cafi

Nathan K. Hammond
08-08-2009, 03:38 PM
Hey Bill; a student showed me a neat trick while at a SportAir workshop. After you burn the hole, take a sharp #2 pencil and spin it in the hole. Does a great job of making the hole perfectly circular and it cleans up any slag left behind by the iron. I thought it was a nifty idea.

Great looking work! and nice Hatz!

nkh

Dave Calkins
08-09-2009, 01:46 PM
Bill, nice looking airplane.

Nathan, yeah, a pencil has the right shape to 'finish' the melted edges. It works well. Of course, it's best that it was sharpened in a pencil machine rather than with a pocket knife.

Bill, I noticed in the photo of the VG templates that you did not cover the face of the butt rib on your wing.?

Bill Rusk
08-09-2009, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the tips gents.

Uhhh Dave, I hate to show my ignorance but should I cover the butt rib? If so ...why?

Thanks for your help.

Bill

Dave Calkins
08-09-2009, 09:56 PM
Bill, covering the butt rib is the way we've always done it. :D

Seriously, with the fabric going around that many corners when the butt rib is covered, rib stitching the fabric to the butt rib is not necessary to hold fabric tension at that critical area.

Hopefully you rib stitched or riveted the fabric to the butt rib and applied a tape over that.

Your a/c is experimental so you can do whatever you like, but I would not skip this important step!

Hope that helps. Take Care. DAVE

Darrel Starr
08-09-2009, 10:24 PM
This is the butt rib covering technique that Bob Schefter used on our certified Super Cub, N18SY. This seems to be the standard technique around here. I have seen some older restorations with the butt rib covered but no new ones.
Darrel
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/7100501a.jpg

kase
08-09-2009, 10:26 PM
Just looked at a new wing from CC Friday and the butt rib was not covered.

Dave Calkins
08-10-2009, 12:51 AM
Sure hope they're attaching the fabric with more than just glue on that rib lower capstrip.

Bill Rusk
08-10-2009, 08:01 AM
Dave
I do sincerely appreciate the help. I wrapped the fabric and stitched what I could. This photo shows the large corner braces on the smith wing that give more glueing area. There are only about 6 inches in the center of the lower rib capstip that have limited glueing area. I should be OK, I think, but again I appreciate the heads up. I have learned a bunch from this group and have no doubt that my project is much better because of this site and all the great folks here.

I am always open to help, tips, instruction etc.

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/DSC003901.JPG

Darrel Starr
08-10-2009, 01:12 PM
Just glue on the butt rib.
Darrel

skywagon8a
08-10-2009, 05:31 PM
Dave-- You and I seem to be in the same camp. Do you think that we are thinking of the ease at which the fabric will peel off if it was glued with nitrate dope? Perhaps the new adhesives are more dependable rendering the need for the full rib cover unnecessary? Another reason for the full rib covering is that it will reduce the tendency for the tightened fabric to twist the rib cap. Also, when using dope it continues to tighten for a long time after the job is finished whereas the ceconite, without dope, doesn't continue to shrink once the job is done. I can see where even the ceconite could pull the rib cap inward in that 6" distance. I have seen nitrate dope shrinkage destroy ribs over time. It might be a good idea to rivet a stiffener to that 6" section to keep it straight. It would help keep the fairing screw line straight. I may do that to mine.

Darrel -- When your covering was finished was the rib still straight in this area?

Darrel Starr
08-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Yes, the butt rib is straight. I believe that Bob coats all of the aluminum nose and trailing edge skins with Polybrush and then wets them down with more Polybrush from the top of the fabric. So that large aluminum skin area is effectively glued also. Even if the glue pealed off around the butt rib, most of the adjacent surfaces are glued fast to the nose and trailing edge skins.
Darrel

Dave Calkins
08-10-2009, 07:20 PM
My thought is that the area is under severe drumming it's whole life, also, the spanwise fabric tension is concentrated on that butt rib. Also, don't forget that a fuel leak may deposit fuel in this area and compromise the bond. With those Smith ribs, it would be easy to pop rivet the fabric and lay a tape over it. Yes, the Smith wings have large gussets to which the fabric may be glued, which would be helpful. Yes, the top of the wing where the fuel tank ends has fabric ending there, but it is also laced on, and has the fuel tank lid gripping it with alot of screw.

Do what you want, or whatever the concensus of opinion happens to be.

My professional opinion, experience, common sense, and intuition say to mechanically attach the fabric to the butt rib at the least, or cover the face of the rib the way it's been done for, like, -ever.

That's an opinion. For freee. :D

Steve Pierce
08-10-2009, 09:24 PM
I agree with Dave. Lots of drumming, fuel spillage etc. I bow the but rib out towards the fuselage a bit because the fabric pulls it in even with the channel braces in place. I use Univair butt ribs which I think are a lot stronger especially after you put a couple of wing root fairing screws in them.

Bill Rusk
10-19-2009, 07:48 AM
Well folks, in an effort to get motivated and also make a little more progress, I invited SC.org member Jason Gerard from Seattle to come spend a few days with me and help me with the Cub. I can't say enough good things about Jason. Extremely knowledgeable, easy to get along with, and a hard worker. We have been working hard on the cub and thanks to Jason we have made a bunch of progress. I will do detailed reports when things slow down a bit but I thought I'd throw out a few photos for now. It has been really fun.

Bill


Jason working on the fuel lines
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_001.jpg


I worked him so hard he fell asleep on the job!
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_010.jpg


First time in the sunlight, making progress.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_014.jpg

Backyard is looking pretty good.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_015.jpg


But we did have to have a little fun along the way, (cracked windshield, temp fix with good old duct tape). Gotta like that Hatz grin.
:D
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_018.jpg


Hero shot.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_020.jpg

SJ
10-19-2009, 12:16 PM
:up :up :up :up :up

cafi19
10-19-2009, 02:47 PM
I am getting inspired Bill. Thanks!!!

I needed that!

cafi

DW
10-19-2009, 05:59 PM
She's looking great Bill, try to do just a little something every day and before you know you'll have her in the air.

Dennis

Dave Calkins
10-19-2009, 09:37 PM
Bill, stuff looks pretty nice. Hatz looks really cool!

Hey, it was brought to my attention to take a close look at the following photo. I would prefer to see the lowest point be the line to the gascolator so any water would be drained before the first flight of the day:

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_001.jpg

Sorry to pick apart your project. DAVE

skywagon8a
10-20-2009, 06:46 AM
Is that an electric wire which I see attached to the gasoline aluminum tubing??? If so, it is not good safe aircraft practice. Be careful.


http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Cub_J_Gerard_visit_001.jpg

Bill Rusk
10-23-2009, 09:42 PM
Ahhh, the adventure continues. After several days of hard work and much progress it was time to get out of the hangar. I had committed to ferry my good friend's Meyers OTW biplane to Florida where he will be spending the winter. (New snowbird type). The wx looked good and Jason decided to join me for a little open cockpit time in an antique biplane. The Meyers OTW biplane is one of 102 built in 1941. It sports a Warner 145 hp radial engine. The OTW stood for "out to win" as it was out to win the government contract for a military trainer for the Army Air Corps. Stearman won but the Meyers were used in select areas as a primary trainer. My neighbor has owned this airplane for 49 years and I am quite Blessed that he trusts me to fly it. He is 85 and still flying. He flew it to SoCal this year. 60 hours in 19 days. He is quite a guy. He flew the SBD in WW2 from the carrier Midway.
So Jason and I flew it to DeLand Florida over a two day period, about 7 hours flight time each day. We stopped in at Elizabethton to visit Steve Lewis on the way. Steve was a super host and took great care of us, as did everyone at the airport. Steve got us a place to crash, fed us, helped us get the old girl ready for more flying and was, and is, just a superb human being. The world is a better place with folks like Steve in it.


Jason with the biplane's owner. Capt (Ret) Chuck Downey.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Meyers_Ferry_to_Florida_007.jpg

Jason flying the Meyers.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Meyers_Ferry_to_Florida_012.jpg

Fuel stop.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Meyers_Ferry_to_Florida_017.jpg

Steve Lewis leading us across the Mountains of Tenn. Really beautiful place.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Meyers_Ferry_to_Florida_030.jpg

Nothing like flying down the beach in an open cockpit biplane.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Meyers_Ferry_to_Florida_049.jpg

The Meyers safely tucked away at its new home for the winter.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Meyers_Ferry_to_Florida_054.jpg

We came back to Poplar Grove and worked a little more on the Cub. Jason returns home tomorrow and I go back to work. I will post more when I have time. It was a great two weeks. Jason is an absolutely superb mechanic and was a huge help. I am re-energized.....just in time to go back to work. :(

Bill :D :D :D

Bill Rusk
11-15-2009, 08:57 AM
Info on the location of the aileron cable exit.

http://www.supercub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=228601#228601

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 11:39 AM
Folks it has been a while since I posted and even longer since I really got much done but hopefully I will do better in the near future. Jason Gerard came out for another help visit and we got a lot done. He is a fantastic mechanic and easy to work with. Highly recommended.

I made a mistake that I would like to share so others can avoid it.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Fuel_line_41.jpg

This is the fuel line for the right tank, rear pick-up. It runs down the right side through the upper baggage compartment, to the left side, under the window and to the fuel valve. It should be routed under the flap pulley in the photo. We corrected it but the end was above the outlet from the tank with this routing. So the bottom line is....DO NOT ROUTE YOUR FUEL LINE LIKE IT IS IN THIS PHOTO.

Hope this helps

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 11:55 AM
We wrapped the fuel lines with cloth tape and/or sliced open a piece of plastic tubing and put it over the fuel lines to protect them from chaffing.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_002.jpg

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 12:01 PM
The battery box is on the firewall and I basically used a Cessna style strap with a clip (or safety pin) through a rolled end on the strap for a battery hold down. Simple and light. I had to trim the stainless U channels for the cowling and so I used a piece of that to make the ears for the hold down pins to go through. Riveted to the battery box.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_010.jpg

There are a lot of ways to do these things and I am NOT saying my way is the only way or the best way. I am just trying to give folks some ideas or help a little.

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 12:16 PM
At Jason's suggestion we drilled a 3/64 (or a #46 drill) hole on all the flap and aileron hangars for a lubrication point. Sorry for the photo quality but hopefully you can figure it out.



http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_035.jpg

These smooth jaw Knipix pliers available from McMaster-Carr are really handy. They don't leave teeth marks. Come in three sizes. Highly recommended.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_033.jpg

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 04:25 PM
I purchased my cabin heat box (the one that comes through the firewall) from Vans. This is a great source of misc parts for us experimental guys. But when it was placed in location it was venting to the side. I did not like that. I do not want any more heat under the cowling than necessary so I wanted it to vent out the bottom. Fortunately it is a pretty square box so I drilled out all the rivits and played "Rubiks Cube" games until I had it rearranged the way I wanted. Vents out the bottom now..... but now the actuating arm is backwards ie pull off, (or we have a really goofy cable run). Solution is a bellcrank to reverse the action. This was Jasons project while I worked on the wing root fairings. Works great.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_003.jpg

The photo below shows the throttle brace. I used a standard PA-18 throttle cable from Univair. I was a little concerned of how it would fit in a widebody fuselage but it works great. I also used a std throttle cable brace from Univair. Works great with a 0-320 and a conical mount. You 0-360 guys may have to do something else. We did have to heat it and twist it a bit to get the angles right but it worked out well.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_011.jpg

Hope this helps

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 04:52 PM
This is the firewall blanket in place. I used nutplates everywhere. I hate sheet metal screws. Its a personal problem and my therapist has assured me it can be cured. The hole in the upper right is for a cannon plug.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_001.jpg

Cowl brace rod. Clamp is a std PA-18 part from Univair.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_019.jpg


Can you tell I am stuck in a hotel room? :D

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 05:18 PM
I used the baffle kit from Vans for the 0-320. Although I left about half of it in the box it is still a great help. It has instructions and all the hard cuts that abut the engine are perfect. You are left to trim the outside edges which is much easier. The kit also includes the rubber, rivets, and other parts. This picture shows the reinforcements going on.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_029.jpg

Hope this helps

Bill

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 05:33 PM
We used a "C" channel from Home Depot to make a plenum for the oil cooler off of the rear baffle. Word on the street is the cooler works better if there is a standoff. It is a 1" channel. This also provides the added benefit of some reinforcement to a pretty highly stressed area.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_031.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_032.jpg

Bill

Darrel Starr
04-14-2010, 07:04 PM
Great craftsmanship -- congratulations!
One improvement I would suggest is to use a long spacer to bolt the cooler to the engine through the outer cooler flange. Our friend Bob Eckstein tells me that he has welded at least 100 coolers that cracked in the tight radius of the inner flange because short bolts were used to attach the cooler to the baffling. We used sections of 4130 bushing stock welded to washers and Cad plated to attach the cooler to the baffling through the outer flange. This is the cure for cooler cracking.
Darrel
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/P1060697.JPG

Bill Rusk
04-14-2010, 07:23 PM
Thanks Darrel. Long bolts and spacers on order.

Bill

Bugs66
04-14-2010, 11:26 PM
Just another data point for the oil cooler, I don't have any plenum or standoff and mounted my oil cooler per the Vans drawings. I have a hard time getting my oil temp much above 160F. If summer were not around the corner I would be blocking it off with some tape. Nothing to lose making the standoff/plenum though.

Looks great Bill! Won't be long now!

Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
04-14-2010, 11:38 PM
Ditto Darrel's remark on the bushings. I make them out of Stainless Steel brake line from NAPA. Also like your block off plate attached to the center holes...that is slick..

Brian.

mike mcs repair
04-15-2010, 01:16 AM
Ditto Darrel's remark on the bushings..

Brian.

triple..... bushings of whatever... and long bolts....

Darrel Starr
04-15-2010, 01:06 PM
Brian, I made up a set of cooler covers last winter not knowing which one would result in raising the temp to 180F. As it turned out, the 100% cover worked fine right up to the first 60F day when no cover worked best. So... over built again, but it did keep me entertained.
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/P1060692.JPG

Bill Rusk
04-23-2010, 06:35 PM
Got these chocks from McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com). I really like these for the hangar. They are heavy rubber so they don't slide on the cement. They are a little pricey but, like tools, they will still be in use in your hangar, or garage, 40 years from now. Recommended.

McMaster-Carr #2175T24 @19.95 each.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2175t24/=6shrln

Bill



http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/gear_001.jpg

Bill Rusk
04-26-2010, 06:39 AM
Lights

When I purchased and started my kit there were only two options for wingtip strobe lights. Whelen and Aeroflash. The Aeroflash were lighter and the power supplys to the strobe could be mounted in the wings thus eliminating the need for shielded cables. So that is the route I took.

The strobes must be exercised every couple of months or the large capacitor in the power supply box goes bad. Well I did not exercise my strobes enough and sure enough both power supply boxes died. Little known fact. Replacing the capacitor is a royal pain or you can pay 125 per box to have the factory do it. So the question arose, do I throw more money at it or go with new technology.

I ordered the new LED lights and they are REALLY nice. I had to make a mounting plate to go inside the wing tip mounts but they fit well and they are far more weather proof, guaranteed for life, weigh considerably less, brighter etc. I probably saved 2 or 3 pounds at least.

Here is a link to the website for Aveoflash.
http://www.aveoaviationlights.com/products/AveoFlash/gallery.php

and a link to the Acft Spruce Catalog page
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveoflashultra.php

Bill

Ron B.
04-27-2010, 06:34 PM
Bill , did you energize the power pack with 25% less power ie. 9 volts (12volt system). Whelen specifies that a strobe power pack not fired up in the last 12 months should be powered with 9 volts for 10 to 15 minutes with no strobes attached. We did just this on our new RV-10 today.
Ron

Bill Rusk
04-27-2010, 08:03 PM
Ron

Thanks for asking. Yes. Aeroflash recommends a similar program. Didn't work.

Bill

blackhelo
05-30-2010, 10:10 PM
Hi Bill,

I'm building a narrow fuselage Backcountry PA-18 in Maryland. About ready to mount the landing gear. What was the measurement on your die spring suspension arm bolt to bolt from the Cabane V down to the axel? I appreciate your time.

Thanks,
Paul

Bill Rusk
06-04-2010, 09:13 PM
Paul

Sorry it took so long to reply. I get 30 and 7/8ths or 31" center of bolt to center of bolt. Hope this helps.

Bill

blackhelo
06-05-2010, 04:26 PM
Thanks Bill, that helped. From your pictures, it looks like you have a standard width fuselage and not the 4" wide body. Again, I appreciate your time.

Paul

Bill Rusk
06-05-2010, 05:28 PM
Actually, it is a widebody.

Bill :D

blackhelo
06-05-2010, 07:12 PM
Ah, that's where my issue is. I have a narrow body and the 30 7/8" brings my gear to wide. I'll have to do some research to find a smaller number that will work for me. You've been a great help.

Paul

FdxLou
06-05-2010, 07:41 PM
Paul

Give Wayne Axelson a call...he knows.

http://supercub.com/

Lou

blackhelo
06-05-2010, 10:23 PM
I will, thanks.

Paul

Bill Rusk
06-06-2010, 03:35 PM
Folks

This is a really handy device. It is from the L19 aircraft. PN 0642105 from Air Repair phone #662-846-0228. The cost is about 22 dollars. It keeps you from getting grease all over your tiedown rope when you wrap it around the tailwheel (and then all over your hands). It is a standard 7/16ths that will fit the Scott 3200 tailwheel. It is long enough for a 2 leaf spring with a full thickness nut and a couple of washers or a three leaf spring with a low profile castle nut.
Hope it helps

Bill
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/tailwheel_001.jpg

Tim
06-06-2010, 04:00 PM
Bill, is it just a ring welded on the head of the bolt?

Tim

Bill Rusk
06-06-2010, 04:33 PM
Tim

Best I can tell....yes.

Bill

irishfield
06-06-2010, 04:34 PM
Keep in mind that the low profile AN320 nut is for shear applications only! It only has 1/2 the tension strength of an AN310.

lytlej
06-06-2010, 08:10 PM
Keep in mind that the low profile AN320 nut is for shear applications only! It only has 1/2 the tension strength of an AN310.
Amen! That bolt is all that holds the tailwheel on, and it is loaded in almost pure tension. No place for a half-height nut. Not hard to imagine the nut popping off but the springs keeping the tailwheel in close proximity and bouncing off of important stuff. That happened to my Taylorcraft (first airplane, in college, low budget, etc.), in tall grass; luckily the springs were in worse shape that the bolt-nut combo so we got to search through the tall grass for the recently-departed tailwheel.

Any reason to prefer a castle nut there? I used a full-height AN365 elastic stop nut on my experimental SC. There didn't seem to be any way it could rotate.

That's a good-looking bolt modification; nice to keep rope from going around the greasy part.

irishfield
06-06-2010, 09:07 PM
I use a 365 as well.. AN8 on my experimentals!

FdxLou
06-06-2010, 09:42 PM
Folks

This is a really handy device. It is from the L19 aircraft. PN 0642105 from Air Repair phone #662-846-0228. The cost is about 22 dollars. It keeps you from getting grease all over your tiedown rope when you wrap it around the tailwheel (and then all over your hands). It is a standard 7/16ths that will fit the Scott 3200 tailwheel. It is long enough for a 2 leaf spring with a full thickness nut and a couple of washers or a three leaf spring with a low profile castle nut.
Hope it helps

Bill
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/tailwheel_001.jpg

Bill

Something tells me that grease on your tailwheel will seldom, if ever, be a problem with your Smith Cub!!

Lou
ps....will the Cub be at NH? Hope so.

T.J.
06-06-2010, 11:09 PM
Well, I was wrong once before so I may be wrong on this also....I believe the ring welded to the bolt head should be on the bottom of the tail wheel not the top. Does that make sense?

Dave Calkins
06-06-2010, 11:35 PM
TJ, I always put them on the top, but you may be on to something. D

Bill Rusk
06-07-2010, 06:12 AM
Thanks for the comments Gents. The bolt from Air Repair mentioned above is an AN7-20. The Cub parts manual calls for an AN7-21, so it may not work for all applications. Sounds like my thought that you could use a low profile castle nut may not be a good idea.

In my case I am using a two leaf tail spring so I have enough thread to use a full size AN365 nut. YMMV. (your mileage may vary)

These are pretty common on C-170's but I have seen very few on Cubs, perhaps because of the difference in required bolt length.

Bill

skywagon8a
06-07-2010, 06:22 AM
This is the firewall blanket in place. I used nutplates everywhere. I hate sheet metal screws. Its a personal problem and my therapist has assured me it can be cured. The hole in the upper right is for a cannon plug.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data//500/medium/Jason_Visit_2_001.jpg
Bill

Good picture. Which one of those holes does the fuel line go through? I don't see one that is big enough.

Bill Rusk
06-07-2010, 09:45 AM
Skywagon8a

It is up and to the right from the lower left engine mount hole. It is a fitting that goes directly through the firewall and into the gascolator.
No rudder pedal interference.

Thanks for checking me.


Bill

Bill Rusk
06-09-2010, 07:06 AM
Folks

When I was covering my wings I left the wingtip aileron junction open. I don't know why, or what I was thinking but I did, perhaps because the corner is awkward, there is nothing to glue the fabric to there. It looks like this.....

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_002.jpg

I am putting in a cover plate like this....

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_005.jpg

Nothing wrong with this but it is extra work. In hindsight, I recommend you cover this area with fabric when you cover your wings. Perhaps rivit in a corner piece to glue the fabric to at the cove or even a plate like mine in the photo above, then cover over it when doing the cover on your wings. It will save time and energy later.

Hope this helps

Bill

Bill Rusk
06-09-2010, 07:20 AM
Folks

Here are a couple of photos on the way I did my wing root fairings. Every screw has a nut plate. I am sure there are other ways but this may give you an idea of how one person did it. (The extra hole was an "oops" and will be filled in and painted over.) I used #6 screws on most everything but I used #8's at the leading and trailing edges of the tank cover. I have no idea why I did this, it was several years ago when I put in those nutplates, but I recommend that you stay with one size screw ( #6's are fine ) for ease of maintenance later. I also used a mix of machine and tinnerman depending on the application but again in hindsight I would try hard to stay as homogeneous as possible to simplify maintenance in the future. Just lessons learned along the way that I want to share so others can learn from my experience.

Hope this helps

Bill

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_007.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_010.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_012.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_014.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_016.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_011.jpg

Steve Pierce
06-09-2010, 12:05 PM
http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_002.jpg


I wrap a small piece of fabric over this area before anything else goes on.

Fairings look great Bill.

irishfield
06-12-2010, 04:32 PM
Lights

When I purchased and started my kit there were only two options for wingtip strobe lights. Whelen and Aeroflash. The Aeroflash were lighter and the power supplys to the strobe could be mounted in the wings thus eliminating the need for shielded cables. So that is the route I took.

The strobes must be exercised every couple of months or the large capacitor in the power supply box goes bad. Well I did not exercise my strobes enough and sure enough both power supply boxes died. Little known fact. Replacing the capacitor is a royal pain or you can pay 125 per box to have the factory do it. So the question arose, do I throw more money at it or go with new technology.

I ordered the new LED lights and they are REALLY nice. I had to make a mounting plate to go inside the wing tip mounts but they fit well and they are far more weather proof, guaranteed for life, weigh considerably less, brighter etc. I probably saved 2 or 3 pounds at least.

Here is a link to the website for Aveoflash.
http://www.aveoaviationlights.com/products/AveoFlash/gallery.php

and a link to the Acft Spruce Catalog page
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveoflashultra.php

Bill

Bill thinking of your post I realized that I had a dual set of Aeroflash units under the bench for the last decade or so. I hooked them up to a battery charger.. and only one out of the two worked. Tried the 6 volt setting for a while and then 12.. still nothing on the one. Added a battery.. and ****.. they both work just fine!! You didn't just have yours on a charger did you and not a battery???

Bill Rusk
06-13-2010, 05:36 PM
irishfield

Thanks for asking but no, I made that mistake when I first got em, :D
called the company to find out why my new flashers did not work and they told me that chargers did not work on em. I used a battery and whaalaa sure enough they worked fine. Glad yours came back, perhaps I just got a bad set. I must say I do like these new LED things. Too bad they were not out when I started this project, or perhaps if I were faster at building the technology would not be passing me up so fast.

Bill

behindpropellers
06-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Bill-

Does anybody ever tell you that you should be restoring airplanes that remain in museums?

Looking great!

Tim

Bill Rusk
06-21-2010, 06:53 PM
Flap Gap Seals

Not sure why I did not do this when working on the wings. Seems to me like you could put these on, then cover and paint. It would save a lot of time and probably look better as opposed to something added after the fact.
But the tip I would like to share is to use cotter pins like clecos. When drilling out for the #4 sheet metal screws I used a number 48 drill bit. This is too small for a std cleco. Rather than use screws to assemble, dissassemble, assemble for trimming, dissassemble, etc etc. such that by the time you are ready for final assembly the holes are wallowed out, I found that a 5/64th MS24665 cotter pin fits in the hole just right. Now you can fit, take apart, fit again etc without wallowing out the holes.
Here are a couple of pictures. I am sure there are other ways but this worked for me.

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_panel_paint_001.jpg

http://www.supercub.org/photopost/data/500/medium/wing_root_fairings_panel_paint_002.jpg


Hope this helps

Bill

Bill Rusk
06-28-2010, 06:58 PM
Seat Belts

I got the seat belts and shoulder harnesses in this last week. I would like to offer a thought. Don't skimp in this area. There are some things on your cub that you will use sometimes, like the underseat storage, and there are things you will use very rarely, like 72 gallons of fuel, BUT you will use your seat belts EVERY single time you fly and for the whole flight so be sure to get them right. Don't try to save money or weight here.
Retractable harnesses are the best but you really need a crotch strap to keep them from riding up, otherwise after a few minutes of flying and moving around you find your lap belt up around your belly button. So I recommend you do retract reels and 5 point harnesses. Now for the real meat.

If I had it to do over, I would go even one step further and do dual reels for each seat. I reel for each shoulder harness with the reels separated by about 10 or 12 inches. This would prevent the neck pinch that is inherent in the "Y" harness design. This is how they are done on transport category aircraft and they are the most comfortable and probably the safest. Right now most, if not all, cubs come with one mount bracket in the center of the fuselage for each seat and a "Y" harness. I would cut these off/ out and weld in two mounts on the same tube but about a foot apart, per seat. This would be the ultimate shoulder harness set up and it would be worth it. Remember you are going to wear these things ALL THE TIME.

Just my opinion, and I hope it helps someone out there.

Bill