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View Full Version : Experimental Cub: Using the "Bob" tailwheel



Bugs66
04-21-2004, 04:00 PM
There is at least one builder making the "Bob Wheel" for his Cub project.

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/pix/erbpix/bobwheel/10220001.jpg

For construction info, see HERE (http://www.eaa1000.av.org/pix/erbpix/bobwheel/twheel.htm)

Use this topic to discuss the building of the wheel. Perhaps we can get together on a "group buy" to have some wheels made up for us? Maybe at least the machine work?

Seems like a great alternative to the Scott 3200 and all the $$$ it takes.

Michael Tracy
04-21-2004, 07:06 PM
I,m interested. How many others?

Mike

don d
04-21-2004, 10:04 PM
I have a "Bobs" tailwheel on my Bushmaster. Like his airplanes, his design is complicated to build. I modified the design, built it without any machining for about 30 bucks without the wheel. Have been using it for acouple of years on and off airports with no problems.

Don

Cub junkie
04-22-2004, 12:41 AM
I have a "Bobs" tailwheel on my Bushmaster. Like his airplanes, his design is complicated to build. I modified the design, built it without any machining for about 30 bucks without the wheel. Have been using it for acouple of years on and off airports with no problems.

Don Don, how did you build the Bob wheel without the machine work? For you guys that want to put a bob wheel on your airplane the wheels are available from B&B aircraft, Gardner,KS(check Trade a plane for #) 20 bucks with bearings. Kevin

CptKelly
04-22-2004, 12:54 AM
This tailwheel looks great to me, and doesn't appear all that hard to make.
Where can I buy a copy of the plans? If I make one for myself, I'll probably go ahead and make several. Anybody interested?

Mike in NC

Frank T
04-22-2004, 07:33 AM
Plans for the "Bob Wheel" are about $25 and available from

Bob Barrows
R & B Aircraft
2079 Breckingridge Mill Rd.
Fincastle VA 24090

Telephone 540-473-3661

Bob does NOT do email or have a web site, snail mail only.

The plans are done with CAD and very good quality.

The wheel is available from B & B. When I talked to them it was more than $20, but not a deal breaker. It is a Gerdes wheel that was used on the infamous BD5. Wicks also has them, but for more.

Budd Davidson was talking about building these tailwheels in his Bearhawk plant in Mexico. I'll email him and check to see if he has started production.

Frank

Bugs66
04-22-2004, 10:52 AM
This tailwheel looks great to me, and doesn't appear all that hard to make.
Where can I buy a copy of the plans? If I make one for myself, I'll probably go ahead and make several. Anybody interested?

Mike in NC

CptKelly, I would be interested. Keep me posted!

Bugs

Cub junkie
04-22-2004, 11:43 AM
This tailwheel looks great to me, and doesn't appear all that hard to make.
Where can I buy a copy of the plans? If I make one for myself, I'll probably go ahead and make several. Anybody interested?

Mike in NC While they dont appear "all that hard to make" I have ten hours in mine and its not done yet, the machine work for the main body is the hold up, Im not a good enough machinist to do that work even though I have the lathe and milling machine that will do it. The forks are 1"x.049 tubing that are ovalized and bowed then sliced down the middle, (I used a cutoff wheel) then material removed and then welded back together to taper the fork. I used my sheetmetal rolls to both ovalize and bow the tubing in a few passes. I may have misqouted the price of the wheel as my brother lives close to B&B aircraft and he got me a pair of the wheels recently and Danny(the owner) always loves "cash in fist" I think this wheel is a viable alternative for guy's building in the exp. catagory, the CAD drawings are very good and even have the whole unit depicted in full scale. I think Frank T might have posted the wrong number for B&B 913-884-5930 Gardner,KS

Jerry Gaston
04-23-2004, 08:45 AM
The tail wheel yoke looks a little wimpy. and what do you do if you break something out in the bush where do you get a replacement part. Everybody has scott tail pieces.

Todd C
04-24-2004, 08:31 AM
I'm interested, what kind of money are we talking about?

Frank T
04-24-2004, 10:13 AM
I got an email back from Budd Davisson and he has not gone into production of the "Bob Wheel" yet.

Frank

Torch
04-25-2004, 02:30 AM
The tail wheel yoke looks a little wimpy. and what do you do if you break something out in the bush where do you get a replacement part. Everybody has scott tail pieces.

This is my vote for the Alaska answer. OOOOOPs I will be on floats this week. Doesn't matter. Woooooooooohooooooooooooooo.

CptKelly
04-30-2004, 04:49 PM
Yesterday, I received the plans to the "Bob" tailwheel. I will now obtain the materials to build a few, and jump on it, in between building my quanset hangar. I'll let you know of my problems.
How many out there might want one?

Mike in NC

Bugs66
04-30-2004, 05:18 PM
Yesterday, I received the plans to the "Bob" tailwheel. I will now obtain the materials to build a few, and jump on it, in between building my quanset hangar. I'll let you know of my problems.
How many out there might want one?

Mike in NC

I am interested. What kind of price have you figured? Are you building per plan? Looking forward to seeing photos and more information.

Bugs

brown bear
04-30-2004, 07:04 PM
If you are make some I would be interested, keep me informed .
Doug

CptKelly
04-30-2004, 07:26 PM
Guys,
I do not know what the cost will be, and I'm not soliciting any "business" either. I plan to build..... maybe ten tailwheels. When I'm finished, I'll let you guys know what it costs to build it. Ok?

Mike

Bugs66
04-30-2004, 10:30 PM
Guys,
I do not know what the cost will be, and I'm not soliciting any "business" either. I plan to build..... maybe ten tailwheels. When I'm finished, I'll let you guys know what it costs to build it. Ok?

Mike

Sounds good, keep us posted.

Michael Tracy
05-01-2004, 05:59 PM
I have a suggestion. The rear of the spring housing looks like it will collect
a lot of mud and crud coming from the tail wheel during off airport operations. What about threading the spring housing for a plug or cap instead of the cotter pin.

Mike

Michael Tracy
05-01-2004, 07:00 PM
I forgot to add I would grind a small flat side on the locking pin apposite the bolt to prevent piston compression in a sealed cylinder.

Mike

Todd C
09-24-2004, 07:44 AM
What's the status on a "group buy" for the machine work, etc. on a Bob Wheel?
Thanks,
Todd

redrooster
09-01-2005, 01:02 AM
Aircraft Spruce sells something that looks kinda similar to the Bob's tailwheel shown above-- it's one of their "homebuilders special tailwheels",heavy duty double fork,6" solid rubber tire. Available for both 1-1/4 & 1-1/2" leaf spring mount, or for a 5/8" stinger. Lists for $278 for all versions in my newest Spruce catalog.
I also saw an ad in the May 2005 "Aviators Bulletin", for a t/w that looks identical to this Spruce t/w. Same mounting options too. Advertised for $240 by Aviation Products Inc in Ojai California 805-646-6042.
Don't know if either one would hold up like a Scott 3200, but with a double-fork, it looks at least as beefy as a (single forked) Maule. And the price is sure right.

Rooster

Bugs66
09-01-2005, 10:52 AM
Thanks for the info. I picked up a nice 3200 on Barnstormers a few months ago, but these new options are worth looking into for sure.

Frank T
09-01-2005, 04:11 PM
I was going to do the Bob Wheel, but I picked up a NIB 3200 on Ebay for $350. There are still some deals to be found :)

Frank

redrooster
09-05-2005, 12:47 PM
I was wondering if there were experimental (less expensive) equivalents to the tall (XP Mods) and fat (Alaska Bushwheel) versions of the 3200? Both the XP & ABW t/w's are really expensive, even worse than a stock 3200. I haven't really seen an affordable substitute for the 3200 either, unless one of the two pneumatic Maule t/w's work for you. I'm kinda leery of that single fork.....and a solid rubber tire (like on the double-fork ACS homebuilders special) may not be the best thing going either. What are most experimental Cub guys using for a t/w?

Rooster

bob turner
09-05-2005, 07:39 PM
I have never heard of a Maule single fork actually breaking. I do know that most Maule drivers replace them with a 3200 - I did the same on an old Stinson. The Maule has a tendency to shimmy!

The 3200 will shimmy, too, if worn out or mis-adjusted. Here's how to make your Maule tailwheel stop shimmying - first, select the one with the shimmy damper, and make sure you have enough adjustment to actually put some force on the king post. Then, note that, even with a new bronze bearing insert, there is lots of slop! You must eliminate that slop, somehow.

Every five years or so, I pull the bearing out, heat it up real good, and put some solder in the bore. I use 70/30, but probably any low melting point tin/lead combo will do. Then I ream it out for a very tight fit. Presto- no shimmy. I lubricate, but not often. I did it for a friend's 170 - ended his shimmy, too.

Had a Super Cub with shimmy in crosswinds - all it took was to make sure the axis of rotation was perpendicular to the runway (3200). We used STC pawnee springs.

Crash
09-05-2005, 09:14 PM
Whats with the price on Scott 3200's. I bought one new from Chief Aircraft in 2002 for the PA-14 and it was $525.00. In 2004 I bought one for the PA-18 and it was $630.00. Now they're up to $819.50. Why has this one part gone up so much? Crash

kase
09-05-2005, 09:16 PM
Got bought out by a French company.

Univair price 690 3200 scott tailwheel $1,117.91

Steve Pierce
09-05-2005, 10:28 PM
I broke the axle on a maule single fork solid tailwheel. I like them on light tail draggers not going into rough stuff but they are not made very well in my experience. Scott has gone nuts on their prices. I will keep all my 3200s and keep rebuilding them.

Best solution I know for tailwheel shimmy and it has worked for me on everything from Champs, Huskys, Maules, Super Cubs, Citabria, Cessna 140 on up.

http://www.pierceaero.net/tws.php

bob turner
09-06-2005, 12:35 AM
The axle on a Maule tailwheel is the same size as an AN-6 bolt, and can easily be replaced by a sub-standard strength bolt. Anybody have a fork fail?

Steve Pierce
09-06-2005, 07:08 AM
I think the axle would fail before the fork every time. My axle failed at the fork. Sheared off. It was as it came from Maule. An AN6 bolt would probably have bent before failure. One thing I have noticed about the Maule single fork with the solid wheel is that it always wears the wheel unevenly. I have changed a bunch of those tires for this reason on everything from Champs to Micco SP26. I like the tailwheel but there are things that you must live with.

I have gotten a field approval on a couple of Maules to change over to Scott 3200. One of the Maule Tundra tailwheels failed to lock consistantly and the other was "squirley. Both customers said the tailwheel improved the directional stability on take-off and landing.

I have replaced a lot of 3200s on light airplanes that had problems breaking the 3200 over when turning on the ground. I think each tailwheel has its place but the key to both is proper maintenance.

duggram
09-15-2005, 01:44 PM
I just checked on that Scott tail wheel at Chief Aircraft. It is now up to $1279.95. This winter I plan to build a Bob wheel.

I noticed what don d said. Have there been others having success with the Bob wheel?

Doug

redrooster
09-16-2005, 12:56 AM
A little off topic: a friend of mine has a Maule SFS-P8A 8" pneumatic tailwheel, the lighter of the two 8" t/w's they offer. Unlike their smaller tailwheels (at least their older ones), there is no adjustment to control shimmy. He said it did in fact shimmy, but what he did to eliminate that was to remove the grease fitting, and drop in a "button" before reinstalling the fitting. This button ( he used an aluminum rivet) acts as a friction damper & got rid of the shimmy-- he just screwed the fitting in/out as required til it worked to his satisfaction. He claims that this t/w doesn't need to be continually greased, so getting rid of the grease-ability is OK. It seems like a better arrangement might be to use a teflon button, and tap the grease fitting hole for a fine-thread machine screw (1/4-28?) fitted with a locknut.

Rooster

NoCubYet
09-16-2005, 04:15 AM
Heres Scotts response from the Bearhawk group. He's in production now so give him a call and see what he can do for you.


To: Plans Bearhawk builders, Kit builders and Cub like builders!

The Answer- Yes, it is now finally a production piece...

The photo that you saw, is the complete wheel, as Bob Barrows designed it.
Presently set exactly to the spring shape for the Bearhawk but spring attach
mods will be available as demand for them grows. ie. Rod spring, different
angle spring, ect.

The reason for the hold up was the request for a product that had 100%
available replacement parts (ie built exactly the same-not one at a time)
This request came from a builder in Monteray, Mexico and I thank him for it.
We now have parts that can be pulled out of the bin, and will fit any our
tail wheel assemblies, this week or one year from now.

The cost will be $545 complete with AN bolts, wheel and tire. This price
will remain as long as the wheels are available from B & B air parts at
present cost. The high steel prices will not effect the tail wheel to much.
Some asked at the show, about the ballon type tail wheel, I would have to
talk to Bob Barrows on this, the basic part would stay the same, only the
yoke would change, I am guessing that modification would cost about $100
more as it would require a "new fixture and wheel in hand" to make
correctly. But lets work with what we know is good for now.

So the sales pitch is simple! Spend near $1000 on a Scott 3200 and get a
8" tire with steer ears that bend and has high repair cost. Or Spend $1000
on mine and get a really good ANR head set free. (just a bit of a joke--I
will let you guys shop for the head set with your money savings)

Expecting to ship two out on Aug 15, 2005

Thanks to all for your great comments and ideas...


Scott Weinberg
Iron Design and Signs


13631 Vail Ave
Clarksville, Iowa 50619
319-276-4400


http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/benbowc/Images/bobwheel.jpg

Cheers
Craig

NoCubYet
09-16-2005, 05:46 AM
Before you all ask the '95 is a typo!

Craig

Steve Pierce
09-16-2005, 07:15 AM
How much does it weigh with tire and wheel?

NoCubYet
09-17-2005, 12:10 AM
How much does it weigh with tire and wheel?

From Scott:

Broken down tail wheel weights!

The 10" tire, tube and wheel 04.50 pound
Bearings and bushings for above 00.56 pound
Complete assembly less above 03.34 pound

Total weight on plane 0 8.40 pound

Sprng weight as supplied by Avipro 05.27 pound

Craig

JayH
09-22-2011, 09:32 PM
Old thread here, but thought I would revive it. I decided to try one of these tail wheels. Have not flown it yet, but so far taxis really nice. Nice part is, it only has about 4 parts to rebuild it at a cost of about $30 bucks. no binding with tighter steering chains. Breaks nice. Will have better pirep when my crate is flying.3704

3705

Todd C
09-24-2011, 12:16 AM
I bought a Bob Wheel from Scott Weinberg for my project. So far it's been waiting on the shelf quite nicely. It came powdercoated a muddy brown color, I like the black and gray better. A bit of Krylon will take care of that!

snowyriver
09-24-2011, 08:00 PM
I have the 8" version on my murphy rebel. It weighs between 7 and 8 lbs. Only 14 hrs on the plane but so far so good. It has taken a few good bounces and looks like it'll survive lots more. Very beefy, yet not bulky. $650 two yrs ago. Craig

Dave Roberts
09-24-2011, 11:08 PM
I have the 10'' version on my Bearhawk. Over six hundred landings and no problems. I made mine before Scott was making them. I am thinking about trying one of Scott's with the stinger. I hear really good reports on them.

Also one of the few things left made in the US.

Dave

brown bear
09-25-2011, 09:29 AM
Dave
Whats the tail weight of your Bearhawk when loaded ?
Doug

Dave Roberts
09-25-2011, 09:05 PM
I don't know. Really heavy. A lot heavier than the Cub. I know full of fuel you don't lift the tail by hand. With the fuselage leveled when weighing for weight and balance the tail was 90 lbs.

Guess that is about all I can help you with, without really getting into a lot of math.

Dave

brown bear
09-26-2011, 05:41 PM
Thanks Dave , I guess I should had known that with out asking.If it holds up for you than us lighter guy should be fine!
Doug

Dave Roberts
09-26-2011, 11:25 PM
Doug,

Give Scott Weinberg a call. He has a lot of tailwheels out there now. He is a straight shooter.

Dave

swoeric
06-19-2017, 10:01 AM
[QUOTE=don d;268389]I have a "Bobs" tailwheel on my Bushmaster. Like his airplanes, his design is complicated to build. I modified the design, built it without any machining for about 30 bucks without the wheel. Have been using it for acouple of years on and off airports with no problems.



by chance do you have pics or a quick description of what you did


thank you much

Eric Pearson

918 740 0972

jbc
06-20-2017, 03:39 AM
There is a gentlemen named Eric newton making this tail wheel commercially. Goof Bearhawk tail wheel for the web page. $600.

John Ciolino
Bearhawk Patrol builder