Low level waivers

How many of you operate with a low level waiver?
Lot of people read the regs to say in sparsely populated areas, you can operate at any level you want, but there is an exception for objects and persons. that includes power lines, windmills, shacks, etc.
An interesting item on the Waiver list is the requirement to File a notam for each flight. ( Unless you get it removed)

Didn't know such a waiver was available? Who utilizes these? Powerline patrol, etc? Can I get one for spotting chicks on the beach? :lol:

I have low-level wavers fly by the cabin all the time. Often they see a low-level moon in return.

If the 500' level was enforced, every pilot in Alaska would get cited.
SB

(The only time I've heard such a notam was when helicopters were slinging equipment for seizmic exploration. They'd sling a test unit in, then leapfrog another about 1/4 mile ahead, and repeat, using two testing units, all day long. Damn good helo pilots. Fun to watch.)

cubdrvr said:

Didn't know such a waiver was available? Who utilizes these? Powerline patrol, etc? Can I get one for spotting chicks on the beach? :lol:

Click to expand...

I used to install/remove the floats off a SC every year... On the bottom of one float, in big letters, was "BIKINI", the other said "PATROL"...

I know that airshow performers all need low level waivers in order to perform.

One lovely summer evening my buddy Chip and I were headed down the Penobscot River at typical Cub cruising height. What a night--air so smooth you didn't need to touch the controls; just lean and the airplane would respond.

Naturally, we had our eyes peeled for one of the more interesting rituals perfomed near dusk on the banks of the river. We've seen many interesting sights on our dusk patrols near popular swimming areas.

That night was no exception.

We rounded a bend in the river and there, on a rock, was a really large woman without a stitch of clothing on. Nada. Not a thing. She was bent slightly forward, with her arms extended forward in a diving position.



Chip yelled "Hi, there!" out the door as we putted on by. I mean, really, what else was there to say?

We always yell "Which Way To Wichita!"

Next summer we plan to yell:

"Which way to Ireland!?!"

Clay, you should come up and fly with us. You and your Dad.

Next time we're up that way we'll give ya a shout.

There are few, if any, low level waivers still current. I understand that there are some in the lower 48 for wildlife survey flights, but no specifics.

We used to operate under the provisions of a waiver for certain purposes, but if you read the waiver carefully, it was essentially meaningless, and useless, hence we dropped it.

Under the FAR, in sparsely populated areas, you must maintain an altitude, which in the event of a power failure, will preclude damage to people or "stuff" on the surface. Note that you can kill yourself, but not someone on the surface.

The caveat, of course, is that you are NEVER permitted to fly within 500 feet of people, vehicles, structures, etc.

Violate that all you like, but I can tell you that the FAA takes that one seriously and aggressively pursues violations on that one, so be careful.

The exception that folks like to use on that is "except when landing or taking off".

Recent FAA enforcement cases have violated pilots who were landing or taking off, but were "lower than necessary" for that purpose, so that's no get out of jail free card either.

By the way, "inadvertant" is not an acceptable excuse either, even if you legitimately didn't see whoever you flew over.

MTV

Mike is exactly right and his point bears repeating. The rules are the rules and the FAA enforces them. Nothing in any of the posts on this site should ever be read as condoning or encouraging any behavior in violation of FAA rules and regulations.

For those of us fortunate enough to live in sparsely populated states that like airplanes, great. Just be a good neighbor and you will never have a problem. I think Carey Gray pointed that out adequately in Lane's article--that and the fact that this kind of flying is not for everyone and please acquire the requisite skill levels before trying some of this stuff at home....

mvivion said:

We used to operate under the provisions of a waiver for certain purposes, but if you read the waiver carefully, it was essentially meaningless, and useless, hence we dropped it.
The caveat, of course, is that you are NEVER permitted to fly within 500 feet of people, vehicles, structures, etc.

By the way, "inadvertant" is not an acceptable excuse either, even if you legitimately didn't see whoever you flew over.

MTV

Click to expand...

This has changed quite a bit in the last 10 yrs. My old waiver let me fly as close as I want to anything except people. the new one says you may not "intentionally" fly closer than 500 ft to people on the ground. Which gives one a little room if he flys over someone hiding in the trees etc. Also there is an exception now allowed for intentional flight close to people if you have a flight ops manual.
If you get turned in for getting close to someone and you don't have a waiver, it will be a lot harder to defend yourself than if you have one now.

What are the requirements to obtain one of these critters?

A valid need (looking at the girls on the beach won't do)
an application filled out
an airplane
a pilot

I assume that the waiver only applies when used for the "valid need"?

For what it's worth... I know of some Cub flyers on the east coast who use military paint schemes to their advantage. Fly low all day long, even in semi-populated areas with no problems. Apparently, most people think they are legitimate military aircraft.

My experience has been that a low flying aircraft rarely incurs wrath.... but repeated buzz jobs will get a call to the FAA, as a C182 pilot found out one day when he made three passes over a house next to where my daughter was working with her quarterhorse. He found out that the FAA will gladly pursue action when they have what they call an 'expert' witness to the incident.

Lest you think I was too eager to cause trouble, it was only after meeting the pilot at the local airport and he told me to mind my own business did I make the call. This event was in a populated area and he had little concern for my daughter... or the bad name he was giving aviation. He was stupid too.... radar track of his Mode C really put the nail in the coffin.

Hydro,

What I always tell my students when they get called on the carpet by someone (right or wrong) is to immediately apologize and act concerned. It does not mean you are admiting guilt to say you are sorry the person is upset. This is 95% of what people want. I am sure that if the guy that buzzed your daughter said, "I never considered that I would be causing such a problem, and I am sorry" you would have had a very different approach. Most people do. But for some reason, we get this "right to be any damn where we want" fixation, and it just makes things harder for us.

I call it the "sucking up after, %!@#$ up" technique...

sj

So, was the daughter ever in danger? As a pilot I'd think you'd be less threatened by an airplane. Most complaints are from people that don't fly. Sounds like two guys had their chests puffed-up to me, but I'm no expert.

I look forward to guys buzzing low overhead. It beats the hell out of a phone call. Much more personal. And my cabin's in a populated area. On weekends, there are three of us there.

SB

As you probably know, a horse can be unpredictable when confronted with an unknown distraction....... so yes, my daughter was in danger.

I've done my share of low flying..... but it's always done with forethought and care taken to minimize risk or annoyance. And, I'm the last one to go running to the FAA to hang a pilot out to dry. BUT, given the threat to my daughter... and the annoyance of 3 buzz jobs (I might have let one pass) in a metropolitan area with an airport nearby that often gets noise complaints, it *&^%$ me off..!!

As Steve pointed out, a simple apology would have been fine. But a "it's none of your business" attitude made it my business.

Slob pilots are no different than slob hunters..... if we tolerate them, we all lose in the end.