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Smith Kit airplanes......

CptKelly

GONE WEST
NC
Does anyone reading this have any experience with the Smith Aviation Supercub kits? His kits seem fair in price, only the wing ribs seem kinda puny when one compares them to the stamped Dakota ribs? You guys just jump on in and let it go. I am considering one of his kits, and need advice.

Mike in NC
 
I will stick with certified aircraft. Home builts are okay but not for me. Good luck.
 
Smith "Cub"

I have looked over the kit that Stan Bearup has in North Pole and it looks quite good. It does look heavy and if you don't like MIG welding it's not for you, but MIG does not scare me. I'm not a big powder coat fan either. I thought the improvements to the fuselage structure were well thought out. The wings are a little different, again appear to be heavy. There are no wires for trammeling, you just bolt it together and it's supposed to be square. The spring gear looks good, I ordered a set of the legs from Wag-Aero yesterday. They tell me each leg is good for 1450 pounds. I thought the nice aluminum brake cylinders were very cool. You should give Stan a call or e-mail him, he's a great guy.

Hey Torch, they all started-out homebuilt!
 
Mike,
I am building one of the Smith wide body PA-18 kits right now. As I have stated on this site in the past, the kits are first class quality, well constructed and thought out and the Smith's support is excellent. I think you would be a happy man if you end up deciding to purchase and build one of their kits. If you would like more information, please let me know. I also have many photos of the construction progression of my kit that I could e-mail you if you would like. As for the wing ribs, they seem plenty strong to me. The wings are already built in jigs and come ready to cover and require no trammeling as stated by "labdad32" in his post above. Simply install the desired systems in the wings, and then cover them. The flaps and ailerons are also pre-assembled and require no riveting. All of the wings, flaps and ailerons are built by very experienced personnel in the Smith's wing shop and are of very high quality. The fuselages are built by Nick Smith Jr. and Nick Smith Sr. who between them have more than 57 years of welding experience. Anyway, enough said on that. If anyone on this site would like any further first hand knowledge on the Smith Kits, please let me know and I would be happy to share any information and experience that I have gained so far with you.
Stan Bearup
 
For anyone interested in a list of all of the mods that are incorporated into the Smith Aviation cub kits, you should check out their latest newsletter on their web site at http://www.supercubkits.ca/feb04NL.htm . You will also find the latest KITPLANES magazine write up and test flight of their PA-18 kits there.
Stan
 
CptKelly said:
Does anyone reading this have any experience with the Smith Aviation Supercub kits? His kits seem fair in price, only the wing ribs seem kinda puny when one compares them to the stamped Dakota ribs? You guys just jump on in and let it go. I am considering one of his kits, and need advice.

Mike in NC
Although similar to Dakota Cubs ribs Smiths ribs look like Carlson aircraft's ribs. I wouldnt call Smith's ribs puny, they are of extruded material just as the favored Dakota cub ribs are.
 
When I talked to Nic Smith I was told their kits are TIG welded not MIG as stated above. MIG is NOT a good process for any airplane not specifically designed for it. If anyone has any solid info that the Smith Cubs are MIG welded please post it.

Frank
 
MIG welding..........

I'd never put my butt in any aircraft that was MIG welded. MIG just doesn't penetrate consistently, and that would scare the dickens out of me, and I could never trust it. I just emailed Nick Smith and asked him that specific question. I'll report what he says.

Mike in NC
 
I don't think the Smith Kit is heavy given the mods it has. At least one has been built at 1050 pds. This is not a J-3 or PA-11. Those are lighter than the SC but you don't get the useful load. Most Smith kits are pushing 1200 pds but they have 180hp and all the bells and whistles, same as a like configured SC and Husky. I'm sure you could scratch build a lighter Cub but it would be a LOT of work.
If you don't want powder coating, just tell Nick Smith when you order the kit and he will do whatever you want. They are very flexible at building your kit however you want. Don't want a certain mod or do want a certain mod, just let him know and he will do it however you want.

BIll
 
Stinsons?

Steve,
I restored a 108-3 a few years ago, and the welded tubing did not appear to be MIG welded, it looked like it was gas welded. I never even thought about this question before, since it appeared to be gas welded. Are you sure about that?

Mike in NC
 
I have a 108-3 project in the shop and it appears to me and my two friends that weld at Air Tractor to be MIG. Lots of splatter all over.
 
Steve,

Are you sure that weld isn't something done way after it was built? I don't think they had MIG in the late 1940's to early 1950's. Surely no aircraft manufacturer could get a fuselage certified with the MIG welding anyway. If I were you, I'd check out this fuselage real good to be sure that something doesn't come apart (after you sign it off). Your liability insurance would triple.
Comments?

Mike
 
All the welding is the same all over the fuselage. All looks factory. It looks good there is just splatter. Liability insurance? They won't even talk to me for less than $10,000.
 
Ernie Carlson was a friend of mine and was trajically killed almost 3 years ago testflying a Storch he was preparing to start manufacturing kits for. No reflection on the airframe design, but the Czech engine has giving them "fits" for months. The factory had just FINALLY supplied a new one to replace the "Lemon" they'd first sent him, and on the first takeoff at his own strip, the new engine faltered, failed, and Ernie was killed when he tried to "zoom" over the tree line at the West end of his 4000' or so strip. He missed making the open field on the other side of the treeline by a couple inches, the aircraft landed snagged in the trees and on it's back and burned. Ernie was heard to still be alive and kicking when eyewitnesses where on the way to the wreck, but he was trapped upsidedown and died in the fire.

Mary, his Darling wife, continues to operate Carlson aircraft in his rememberance. Last I knew, all the same "crew" is still there and they are keeping the Wolf from the Door quite nicely building and selling the Sparrow Kits, etc. About a year ago, their ribs were selling for somewhere around $45 US apiece on the average, but are probably slightly more by now. They're good looking pieces.

They're a five-day business, so call Carlson Aircraft (S.R. 14, East Palestine, Ohio) at 1-330-426-3934 9:00 to 5:00 Eastern any weekday and talk to Mary. They have several ribsets available and will sell singles if you want. Mary probably won't need to put you on hold to look something up. She's "sharp".
 
Re: Steve,

CptKelly said:
Are you sure that weld isn't something done way after it was built? I don't think they had MIG in the late 1940's to early 1950's. Surely no aircraft manufacturer could get a fuselage certified with the MIG welding anyway. If I were you, I'd check out this fuselage real good to be sure that something doesn't come apart (after you sign it off). Your liability insurance would triple.
Comments?

Mike
I think Stinsons were stick welded. I worked on one before and replaced some tubes I remember finding slag under some what appeared to be orginal primer.
 
I have some old Stinson airframe stuff around and it looks to certainly not be gas welded. Their welds look alot like mig. Who knows what Maule is doing but you can bet it is the cheapest method. Most of the toy kit planes like Rands, Avids and Kitfoxs are mig welded. In my opinion both mig and tig have cracking tendences adjacent to the welds unless the metal is normilized. Both consentrate the heat and do not allow chromoly to cool normally. Cool metal nest to the weld pulls the heat away too fast. Tig provides a more consistant or at least prettier weld .

There are some really ugly homebuilts out there with some really ugly welds that have not failed.. You don't hear of alot of structural failures even in homebuilts.

You guys flying those certified airplanes thinking they can't have structural problems are kidding yourselves. A friend of mine was killed in his Pacer when a wing attach fitting failed. I looked at the fittings and they looked like they were overstressed and just pulled apart. I expected evidence of a crack leading to failure but by the way the metal was stretched across the wideth of the fitting, it didn't look like it. Funny thing the wing came off on climbout at about 300ft. Speed was low and there couldn't have been alot of stress then, Some how must have been damaged before.

I use a mig welder to tack weld my asemblies and finish up with gas to be sure. I'm old fashion and like to see the metal flow together in that puddle..

Don
 
MIG or TIG

Sorry for the report that the Smith fuselage is MIG welded, I was sucked-in by the article in the Feb. Kitplanes issue, page 57. Everything I saw of the kit looked fine to me.
 
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