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- Thread starter flagold
- Start date
G
Guest
Gunny:
What I am demonstrating here is more "driving the field" in a live example. There are times when you want uncoordinted flight, and this is one of them: down low "driving" around bushes and trees. I just emerged into the clear, the exit is to my left (towards the camera), but there's something that happened that was incorrect. What was it?
MM
What I am demonstrating here is more "driving the field" in a live example. There are times when you want uncoordinted flight, and this is one of them: down low "driving" around bushes and trees. I just emerged into the clear, the exit is to my left (towards the camera), but there's something that happened that was incorrect. What was it?
MM
G
Guest
Looks like a student pilot learning to fly?
Greg Smith
Registered User
Merritt Island, FL
Where was the wind from? it looked like you settled a bit as you turned back to the left just before going out of the picture. Losing a couple feet here could have caused you to knock over the tripod, but touching that left wheel to the ground sideways could have been a bad thing. Had you planned to pass in front of, over or behind the tripod?
The picture doesn't have enough clarity to see control deflections.
Keep them coming... This is fun!
The picture doesn't have enough clarity to see control deflections.
Keep them coming... This is fun!
supercub
MEMBER
Let me check my GPS, gee how'd we ever navigate w
Use Caution: Obviously Flagold gets away with these types of low level maneuvers, however I would caution anyone wanting to try these techniques to first practice at a "high altitude" before attempting anything like it down low. Remember the 4 fundamentals of flight.....stall, spin, crash, burn....as Cuby says........ya awl be careful out there.
Brian
Brian
G
Guest
>To turn downwind will result in a loss of lift and a bounce or worse.<
With the exception of transient effects due to wind shear, why would this happen any more often when turning downwind than when turning in any other direction?
JimC
With the exception of transient effects due to wind shear, why would this happen any more often when turning downwind than when turning in any other direction?
JimC
G
Guest
> When turning downwind apparent wind over the wing decreases at the moment we turn from heading into, to 90 degrees of the wind<
You're kidding, right?
I do agree with you about adding power going into any turn in which you intend to maintain level flight. As the load factor increases, so does the drag, and you should add power to compensate for that.
I think we're all in agreement about adding speed and/or power in gusty conditions.
All the best,
JimC
You're kidding, right?
I do agree with you about adding power going into any turn in which you intend to maintain level flight. As the load factor increases, so does the drag, and you should add power to compensate for that.
I think we're all in agreement about adding speed and/or power in gusty conditions.
All the best,
JimC
G
Guest
> Up high, you don't even see any momentary altitude loss or climb degradation when the wings go 90 degrees to the wind and if you're operating above the stall -- you won't see anything at all --<
So you're talking only about effects in the shear layer?
JimC
So you're talking only about effects in the shear layer?
JimC
G
Guest
can't we all just get along?
G
Guest
> can't we all just get along?<
I would certainly hope so. I'm not an evangelist for my views, and would not dream of pushing them onto others (except when teaching fluid mechanics courses, and then only to those students because of the obligation to do so for the duration of the course).
Flagold, I have no doubt that you are a better pilot than I am, and I had no intention to insult you, nor was I making fun of you. I intended my last post as an effort to determine the conditions in which you were perceiving shear effects.
All the best, and best wishes to all for the coming year.
JimC
I would certainly hope so. I'm not an evangelist for my views, and would not dream of pushing them onto others (except when teaching fluid mechanics courses, and then only to those students because of the obligation to do so for the duration of the course).
Flagold, I have no doubt that you are a better pilot than I am, and I had no intention to insult you, nor was I making fun of you. I intended my last post as an effort to determine the conditions in which you were perceiving shear effects.
All the best, and best wishes to all for the coming year.
JimC
cub_driver
Registered User
Big Lake AK
I for one have been enjoying your short video clips Flagold, I hope you keep them coming. I was thinking of them early this morning and believe I have gained good advice from you in advanced situations. Many pilots would never need the experience you are trying to teach and may not understand it but I admire it.
If you get tired of taking the time to video and post you abilitys could I come down and have you give me some duel?
Cub_Driver
If you get tired of taking the time to video and post you abilitys could I come down and have you give me some duel?
Cub_Driver
Greg Smith
Registered User
Merritt Island, FL
Flagold, I don't think anyone is dissin you here. You have brought a fun and effective teaching tool to a really cool site. I look forward to the challenge and have learned something from each post. I know if I tried this stuff on the deck at my current level of expertise... Well, let's just say you could use the Stitz as my burial shroud if it doesn't all burn up in the post-crash fire.
I know one of the problems with this type of communication is that someone's tone can easily be interpreted as hostile or mean (Hence the evolution of emoticons
). I think some of the folks were just asking questions about a topic they knew to be important but didn't yet get what you were trying to get across.
Humor and poking fun is another accepted thing that goes on, especially when someone is doing something new (I know when I saw the clip for the first time I went AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHH! I saw myself in the pilot's seat and a fiery end). The replies to your posts that I have seen all look like they were sincere and/or in good humor. Even on the other board. You're definitely being pilloried there, but it is in jest.
I look forward to meeting you and the rest of the friends I have met on this site someday soon. I hope I don't catch too much flak for showing up in something with metal on the wings. I can't afford a Supercub yet.
I know one of the problems with this type of communication is that someone's tone can easily be interpreted as hostile or mean (Hence the evolution of emoticons
). I think some of the folks were just asking questions about a topic they knew to be important but didn't yet get what you were trying to get across. Humor and poking fun is another accepted thing that goes on, especially when someone is doing something new (I know when I saw the clip for the first time I went AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHH! I saw myself in the pilot's seat and a fiery end). The replies to your posts that I have seen all look like they were sincere and/or in good humor. Even on the other board. You're definitely being pilloried there, but it is in jest.
I look forward to meeting you and the rest of the friends I have met on this site someday soon. I hope I don't catch too much flak for showing up in something with metal on the wings. I can't afford a Supercub yet.
S2D
MEMBER
Montana
Keep em coming Matt, don't let the Bashing get to you -heck you survived the Diggler rants you should be able to survive the rest.
I quit arguing the low and slow downwind turns long time ago, cause 95% of the people that haven't experienced them aren't going to believe you anyway.
I quit arguing the low and slow downwind turns long time ago, cause 95% of the people that haven't experienced them aren't going to believe you anyway.
Mikey
FRIEND
Everett, WA
Flagold,
Thanks this is good stuff (especially now that I figured out how to get my REAL Player to play the video too). I think we spend so much time teaching how the aircraft is "aloft, drifting in a sea of air" when discussing relative wind that we overlook the point you made regarding the "instantaneous" effect of changing wind or aircraft attitude. In flight our aircraft are always trying to remain in a state of equilibrium. But thanks to intertia, there is going to be some time lag when a change is made and re-establishing equilibrium. This is why a 15kt wind sheer on final at 200' can make a jet jockey have to change his underwear when he get on the ground. The heavier the aircraft, the longer the time lag. If your plane weighs 1500# (including elevator download), those wings have to generate 1500# of lift or it's going to fall out of the sky. When you make that downwind turn, relative airspeed drops until inertia is overcome and the aircraft accelerates. Until that happens or pitch (AOA)/power is added, the aircraft will settle and thus increase AOA on it's own as needed to make that 1500# of lift. Hopefully after seeing your video, a few more people will avoid running out of altitude, available AOA and luck at the same place.
Your discussion on skidding turns make me curious about what negative effect if any VGs may add. Occurs to me these little guys are scientifically mounted on the assumption that the relative wind flow is chord-wise. What happens when the flow is offset at a 10-15 degree angle thanks to the "skid"?
Regards
"Mikey"
Thanks this is good stuff (especially now that I figured out how to get my REAL Player to play the video too). I think we spend so much time teaching how the aircraft is "aloft, drifting in a sea of air" when discussing relative wind that we overlook the point you made regarding the "instantaneous" effect of changing wind or aircraft attitude. In flight our aircraft are always trying to remain in a state of equilibrium. But thanks to intertia, there is going to be some time lag when a change is made and re-establishing equilibrium. This is why a 15kt wind sheer on final at 200' can make a jet jockey have to change his underwear when he get on the ground. The heavier the aircraft, the longer the time lag. If your plane weighs 1500# (including elevator download), those wings have to generate 1500# of lift or it's going to fall out of the sky. When you make that downwind turn, relative airspeed drops until inertia is overcome and the aircraft accelerates. Until that happens or pitch (AOA)/power is added, the aircraft will settle and thus increase AOA on it's own as needed to make that 1500# of lift. Hopefully after seeing your video, a few more people will avoid running out of altitude, available AOA and luck at the same place.
Your discussion on skidding turns make me curious about what negative effect if any VGs may add. Occurs to me these little guys are scientifically mounted on the assumption that the relative wind flow is chord-wise. What happens when the flow is offset at a 10-15 degree angle thanks to the "skid"?
Regards
"Mikey"
you dont have to worry. they have driven him away from here. i hope he comes back but dont blame him if he doesnt. no one likes to try and add some help for people, only to be snipped at. if lucky, you can get this group down to maybe a dozen that have exactly like views.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
If Flagold leaves us for good, it will be a sad day for me. He has provided me with lots of valuable information on a lot of subjects, including flying.
As you all know, I despise censorship. Because of that, I don't delete posts that just seem to be nasty for the sake of being nasty, or seem way out of line. Sometimes it is hard to resist, as it was in this thread, but I hope that folks new to the site will come to understand that we are all trying to treat our fellow pilots and web friends with the same respect that we would want to be treated with.
Does this mean we need to all agree? Hell no! We have had some GREAT disagreements on here (everyday) that don't end in name calling and bloodshed, but in a (hopefully) deeper understanding of the variability of experience and "fact" in the things we do.
It has also been my experience that I have sometimes learned the most from the people with the least credentials, FAA or otherwise. I have a lot of FAA paper, gold seal CFI,II,AGI, blah blah blah, but there are many volumes of information and experience of tremendous value from people who are only private pilots - albeit with vast experience. This is WHY I created this website, not to debate credentials, but to gather and ponder information that I could never get anywhere else.
I appreciate the attitude of most folks who spend there time thinking what they can add, rather than what they can subtract from a conversation. That is NOT a specific attack on anyone, because there are a number of "us" out there...
Thanks, and PLAY NICELY!
sj
As you all know, I despise censorship. Because of that, I don't delete posts that just seem to be nasty for the sake of being nasty, or seem way out of line. Sometimes it is hard to resist, as it was in this thread, but I hope that folks new to the site will come to understand that we are all trying to treat our fellow pilots and web friends with the same respect that we would want to be treated with.
Does this mean we need to all agree? Hell no! We have had some GREAT disagreements on here (everyday) that don't end in name calling and bloodshed, but in a (hopefully) deeper understanding of the variability of experience and "fact" in the things we do.
It has also been my experience that I have sometimes learned the most from the people with the least credentials, FAA or otherwise. I have a lot of FAA paper, gold seal CFI,II,AGI, blah blah blah, but there are many volumes of information and experience of tremendous value from people who are only private pilots - albeit with vast experience. This is WHY I created this website, not to debate credentials, but to gather and ponder information that I could never get anywhere else.
I appreciate the attitude of most folks who spend there time thinking what they can add, rather than what they can subtract from a conversation. That is NOT a specific attack on anyone, because there are a number of "us" out there...
Thanks, and PLAY NICELY!
sj
S2D
MEMBER
Montana
Supercubber:
I think even diggler and I learned that there are lines that don't need to be crossed on this site. Its easy to sit in a chair all alone and take potshots at somebody when one is doing it anonymously and they have their name up for all to see. Sometimes one can cross it too far and then it takes a long time to get back across it if one ever can.
Brian
I think even diggler and I learned that there are lines that don't need to be crossed on this site. Its easy to sit in a chair all alone and take potshots at somebody when one is doing it anonymously and they have their name up for all to see. Sometimes one can cross it too far and then it takes a long time to get back across it if one ever can.
Brian
G
Guest
I guess where I took issue with Flagold is where he started flying off the handle and insinuated and insulted Diggler, myself and a couple of others as being Trolls in another thread just because we didn't except his opinion as gospel.
Then he makes out of the way comments about our flying capabilities...screw him!
When he's challenged he hides so what does that say?
Then he makes out of the way comments about our flying capabilities...screw him!
When he's challenged he hides so what does that say?
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
I guess it says about as much as posting anonymously under "guest"...
Which is, not much.
I missed the "troll" thread, and I do subscribe to the "if you are going to dish it out you better be able to take it" theory.
However, I also subscribe to the theory that it is a lot more challenging to make your point without pissing anybody off, where everybody can learn from it - ESPECIALLY if it has already begun its escalation from rational thinking.
I am not faulting anyone specifically here, I am just sayin what I am sayin.
sj
P.S. I SUCK at not pissing people off, but I do subscribe to the theory...
Which is, not much.
I missed the "troll" thread, and I do subscribe to the "if you are going to dish it out you better be able to take it" theory.
However, I also subscribe to the theory that it is a lot more challenging to make your point without pissing anybody off, where everybody can learn from it - ESPECIALLY if it has already begun its escalation from rational thinking.
I am not faulting anyone specifically here, I am just sayin what I am sayin.
sj
P.S. I SUCK at not pissing people off, but I do subscribe to the theory...
