currently removing squared wing and dr tips? opinions?

[westwind]

I am currently having the wings on my pa-18a returned to stock, we get alot of wind in southern AB, seems to be a bit of a handful to get on the ground sometimes. :crazyeyes: I have never flown a stock wing sc, hoping to make it more user friendly in adverse conditions?

[Rob]

new guy, I've flown a few stock winged cubs and they did seem a bit more wind friendly in landing than mine ( drooped Fergusons ) but not all that much. Also mine seems to get "tossed around" a bit more at altitude on those more turbulent days. But again not so much that I'm going to take them off, I'll take the trade for the extra wing area.

[Jerry Burr]

Hi New Guy. Univar has a STC to shorten the stock wings 3 feet more on each side. They call it a clip wing. You may be interested in this. Jerry.

[S2D]

New guy-- Although I personally wouldn't spend the money putting "drooped" wingtips on my supercub, I dang sure wouldn't spend the money taking them off either.
(nice dig Jerry.) :Beer

[nanook]

NewGuy: Sounds to me like you have recieved some sound advice. I would do the same thing. Go back to the stock wing and you will be happy. I used to fly a extended wing/standard aileron 180hp cub for a 135 operator, what a POS. I would get in my cub with stock wings/160hp after flying the POS around, and I could not believe the differance, faster roll rate, much easier to handle in a crosswind. In my opinion the droop tips have been nothing more than a vision blocker at best.

[westwind]

Nanook. Have a friend that is a commercial operator in the Yukon he pointed me in this direction, good to hear your experience points the same way... It appears to be hard to redesign the wheel.........

Jerry you almost sound bitter?

[cubpilot2]

When I got my Cub (not the project one) it had the drooped tips and standard ailerons. It was very slow on the roll rate and so sluggish that you couldn't slow the airplane down for good short field landings with much turbulance.
When I reworked the airframe the drooped tips went into the dumpster but I retained the fullsized tip rib. We then extended the ailerons and it performed like a completely different airplane. Good control at slow speeds even when on the ragged edge. I was then able to land much shorter due to a solid feel of control. I later added VGs and was even better.
If the wings had been stock I wouldn't have changed a thing except add VGs

[Jerry Burr]

Sorry, New Guy. Just trying to help. :( Jerry.

[westwind]

no worries :D Jerry it's all good!

[Crash]

Returning a squared off wing to stock can be a pain if the joker that did it, clipped 2 1/2" off the front spar cap ends to make them even with the back spar. The furgeson STC called for the top and bottom cap extensions to be cut off on the front spar so it would match the back spar, i.e. squared off wing. To go back to the stock wing tip bow you need to either replace the front spars or weld two little 2 1/2" chunks of spar cap to the ends of the spar. If the FAA ever knew you did this you would get hammered. If you add on spar cap, I'd install a .125 aluminum plate shaped like a V that would extend back into the original spar cap for reinforcement. Run screws through the plate, cap extensions and original spar caps to tie the whole thing together. It will be stronger then stock but I wouldn't try to get it signed off by anyone. When forming the caps back to a tapered point, mark a center line and clamp a straight edge along it and extending out past the ends of the spar caps. Take a plumbers torch and pass it back and forth over the spot where the cap should be bent. Apply light pressure with a leather gloved hand and form the caps slowly down to the center line indicated by the straight edge. Don't over heat and don't go too fast. Never try to cold bend them, they will crack. Myself, I will never buy another Cub with "dicked up" wings. Skip the training wheels and learn how to fly. Good luck! Crash

[Jerry Burr]

I think you will find that Ferguson just seperated the caps and slipped a plate inbetween them. Demer cut the caps off. Ferguson lengthened and squared. Demer just squared. :) Jerry.

[jay heil]

New Guy Do you have Ferguson Tips that you are taking off? Are they for sale? Thanks Jay Heil

[Crash]

I was looking through the paperwork of a PA-14 I was thinking about buying a few years ago. It had drooped tips and in the paperwork was the STC for Furgeson Droop Tips. The installation instructions were there as well so I took the time to read them and I clearly remember it saying to cut off 2 1/2" of the front spar caps to square the spars up then install the plates. My PA-18 wings had furguson tips on it and the rear plate was slid out to match the front one, the caps were not cut. The guy I sold them to had a heck of a time getting the FAA inspector to sign them off (even though they were signed off on my plane for 20 years) because all the information about installing them called for the front spar caps to be cut to match the rear ones. I may be all screwed up but this is where I get my info. P.S. when I took them off and weighed them they were 6 lbs each. With all the plates and hardwear they were closer to 8 lbs each. A lot of heavy crap to have bouncing around that far out on the wing. Crash

[Steve Pierce]

There is a Piper Service Instruction on splicing Piper wings. The spars can legally be spliced outboard of the lift strut fittings. Univair sells the kit. It uses doubler plates on either side of the spar. I rebuilt a set of wings that had been cut off for droop tips by cutting some old spars and splicing them on per the Service Instruction. Crash is right it is heavy.

[Wayne Mackey]

New Guy,
Some peaple drive a ford some chev. some dodge. What one is the best, that will
start a lot of fights. Just kidding this is a great subject. A year ago I recovered a cub
for a guy in the great falls area who flys for a living and uses his cub for game
counts for fish feathers. There is hardly a day the wing don't blow. We inslalled the
Hendericks type tips and exstended the ailerons. The roll rate is great and the perfomance much better. He is very pleased.

[westwind]

Some great insight out there thank's...........

J.Heil and Don.D I talked to my AME yesterday and he stated the tip was made by Madre and that it wasn't made anymore, not sure what they are worth? Maybe someone could shed some light on the subject?

[mvivion]

Some time back, I flew a couple thousand hours in a Cub with extended wings and the Madras tips, but stock ailerons. It was terrible in turbulence, and really not much fun to fly

When the airplane was in rebuild, they converted it back to stock wings, and I had the chance to fly it a bit. What a difference!!

I'd square off the wings, extend the ailerons to the tip, and call it good. I like the square tips, I think they give you almost as much effective wing area as the droop tips, but they really need to have the ailerons extended to work well.

Otherwise, go back to stock tips.

Mike Vivion

[Wayne Mackey]

You got it Mike,
the last two experimental cubs I did had exstended wings with the ailerons to the
tip. We didn't use any tip. It was lighter and roll rate is good. got the performance
increase without loosing ailerons. Wayne

[Cub Kid]

I'd square off the wings, extend the ailerons to the tip, and call it good. I like the square tips, I think they give you almost as much effective wing area as the droop tips, but they really need to have the ailerons extended to work well.

Otherwise, go back to stock tips.

Mike Vivion

As I remember it the only normal category aircraft with the squared off wing/extended aileron combo are approved under 337s. Am I right here? I could easily be wrong, I have never had occasion to perform such a mod. if thats the case, it may be a moot point if you can't get it approved.

And Steve I used the spell check.

Bill

[jay heil]

thanks for the reply New Guy I guess im not interested in the madras tips im looking for the fergussons? thanks anyway

[Crash]

I'll keep an eye on the dumpsters out at the airport. A set will turn up sooner or later. Crash

[fatcub]

Hey Crash, getting back to that torch thing. by heating it you are in fact annealing the temper. Essentially you are taking it from lets say a temper of t56 to o temper. So it doesn't matter if it's hot or cold. Now remember that not all aluminum alloys will age harden back to the original temper and some alloys will not age harden at all. Also most age hardening will take 24 hours or longer.

Just a note so people don't try to bent their stuff up like they are working on the old tail pipe on the John Deere.

Scott.

[diggler]

delete

[westwind]

The aircraft did have the standard aileron so that was no doubt a dominant factor in the handling difficulties...........the boy's have one wing back together "stock" ....looking forward to the completion of the other :D ........... keeping it commercially certifiable...... good point about the cost of repair Diggler......I'm thinking the "stock" should still handle better in gusty conditions due to less surface area vs squared and extended aileron??