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External Loads

sj

Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
There has been some discussion here about external loads, and I have seen pictures of external loads from coyotes to plywood. How are these handled from a certification standpoint? How much weight can you hang on your struts, and what is the aerodynamic effect? Can I mount some bicycles out there?

I searched around here but could not find any info...

Thanks!

sj
 
steve said:
There has been some discussion here about external loads, and I have seen pictures of external loads from coyotes to plywood. How are these handled from a certification standpoint? How much weight can you hang on your struts, and what is the aerodynamic effect? Can I mount some bicycles out there?

I searched around here but could not find any info...

Thanks!

sj

Well, according to the local FSDO... You can't...

One could attempt to get an approval, requiring flight testing, flight manual supplement, possible noise testing, etc., but it would be cheaper and easier to buy a CE-180 (I still have 2 folding mountain bikes that I carried in my CE-185)...

I've heard people talk about getting a Part 133 External Load Certificate, but 133 is only applicable to rotorcraft...

OK, the question everyone is asking at this point; how do other people do it?... Don't ask, don't tell, I guess...

All this is probably not applicable to Alaska aircraft, although from what Stewart and T.J. are telling me...
 
external loads

Atlee,s lumber rack is stc,d for the cub I believe. Maybe he can shed some lite on this subject. Certainly there must be some way to make it legal to haul external loads if the rack to do so has been approved.
 
Up here we can get a form that allows external loads in the restricted category. It's done all the time. Boats, canoes, antlers, plywood, doors, windows, and one guy I know attaches a SkiDoo to his Cub. Most of the loads are on float planes, whose struts are easy to attach loads to. My sheetrock friend was flying his Cub on Bushwheels. The SkiDoo Cub is on skis.
SB
 
It flies. What an advantage when going winter hunting. I've also heard stories of guys flying with 16' lumber tied to the struts and tail. And we're talking Cubs on tires.
SB
 
In the Alaska Region of FAA, there is indeed a pretty liberal external load policy, at least for the moment. I haven't heard of anyone trying to change that either.

If you reside in another region, you may want to acquire a copy of the Alaska Regional policy and try to convince your local FSDO to adopt it. Good luck, but it might work.

The procedure is that you fill out an application, a form 337 to take the airplane into the Restricted category, and submit them to the FAA. They then issue a restricted category airworthiness certificate, and a set of operating rules (generic in nature).

Pilots operating under these rules must advise ATC when they are in the restricted category, and must display a restricted sign in the window of the aircraft, visible from outside. That's the main thing.

I have carried a number of interesting loads, and I can tell you that some of them do not fly well at all. Antlers in particular can be very interesting.

One of these days, one of us will do something really stupid with an external load and the FAA will rescind the policy, I suppose.

I sure hope it isn't me,

Mike V
 
We have an operator here in MN who went to the Chicago FSDO and got a 1 time STC for his Cessna 180 and 206 (on floats) to haul external loads. The Feds sent a rep up to do the flight testing.

He flies out of Tower MN on lake Vermillion (right down the road from you Dave :) and it gives him a leg up on the other outfitters in the area.

Hey a question to you more knowing types. Does a Beaver have an external load capability as part of its type certificate and if so is it legal to use this in the lower 48? I've heard that once and I saw one departing Canadian customs at Saganaga with a canoe on the side while paddling by (into the wind of course :-?

Brad
 
My understanding is the Beaver is approved for external loads. I also remember that when Wipaire did the certification for their 4000 Floats on the 206 they got that setup approved for external loads. I don't know if they did the same for their new 3450's. The 4000's are now out of production.
 
Just took a look at the Type Certificate Data Sheet for the Beaver. There are two external loads certified.....One for Canoe's, and another for Lumber and Freight. Both call out size and loading requirements. Max Canoe size was like 18' x 4+'.
 
The Beaver was approved on the TC for external loads, but technically to do so requires the specific racks produced by deHavilland. I suspect most of the loads nowadays are being carried without racks.

One of the Beavers I flew for six or seven years actually had the lumber racks on the spreader bars, and we had the canoe racks for the vertical struts, though I never used them. There was also, I believe, a kayak rack, which carried three per side, I believe. That may have been someone's homebrew, though.

I'm not aware of any approvals on the Wip 4000 floats, and that's what I'm flying now, but in any case, we use the AK region External Load policy.

Mike V
 
Canadian authorities have realized that this is an issue that has been done "quietly" for over 50 years 8) , with no adverse accident statistics :) . They now allow us to strap it on, do a proving flight to check for no adverse flight characteristics and then make their set out log entries. After that this "load" can be carried thereafter WITH PASSENGERS 'till the cows come home". IF you change the load, ie Canoe proving flight and then want to carry lumber, you have to do a proving flight for a load of lumber, make the entries and then take off to the lake with your work crew. Heck, there's even a provision to do it if it DOES effect flight characteristics!

Maybe you can use these documents to help sway the FAA to adopt the same policy! Link to TC document http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/RegServ/Affairs/carac/Technical/GOFR/WG/external-loads-fr.htm

Cheers,
Wayne
 
The external load permit is indeed easy to get, in Alaska.

In about 2004 or 2005, the FAA national folks came to AK to hold public meetings on, and consider creating a national policy on carriage of external loads. That didn't last long as two or three divisions of the FAA got their underwear in a knot cause they weren't invited to the party.

Eventually, the concept was allowed to quietly die. Generally, I felt that if it ever did get to national policy making levels, Alaska would lose its functional policy, and whatever developed as national policy would be really restrictive and non functional. In fact, I was told by a high up in the FAA that he'd already heard rumblings about the "crazy stuff going on in Alaska" and he felt if it got much air time in DC the AK policy would disappear.

It works in AK, but....

MTV
 
Well I don't know the legalities but I have it from a very reliable source that two bikes one on each side with the front wheel removed and bungied on tight works pretty well. :)
 
Well I don't know the legalities but I have it from a very reliable source that two bikes one on each side with the front wheel removed and bungied on tight works pretty well. :)
I have heard that bed springs do not work very well. Too much drag.
 
square end of the boat facing forward, pointy end back...

screw lumber together so the middle won't slide

Keep pieces on spreader bars out of the prop, and if it goes very far back, it can prevent the plane from getting into a plow and up on step...

so I have heard
 
George

How can I carry my Supercub as an external load for the C-180? :roll:
 
George

How can I carry my Supercub as an external load for the C-180? :roll:

Now that the Shuttle program is finished, there should be some attach points available used to hook the shuttle on the 747.

Knowing that you have some big tires, they should fit right in!

Mount the tire holders on the top of the wings, set the cub right on top, and fly away!8)

Probably best to put the pointed end, (tail) towards the back in this manner, and I would think the cub needs to be on wheels!;-)

Then again, just have me fly the cub!

If you are in fairbanks with one of those birds, I need a lift to a small strip just west of Kantishna... if you are looking for places to fly. 1200+ feet good approaches
 
I once knew a fellow who had on his office wall an air to air photo of a Cessna 206 as an external load on a DHC-2 MK III Turbo Beaver on floats. It was not photo shopped. I asked him how the load flew. He said it was pretty ugly till he got up to serious altitude. He also allowed as how he'd never let anyone talk him into that again.

MTV
 
I once watched an Otter on floats carry a Super Cub out of Two Lakes. The fuselage was strapped to one side and the wings were on the other. The Otter had to make several runs along the ridge to the west side of the lake in order to get enough altitude to fly over Merrill Pass.
 
Yep, that was the arrangement of the load on that Turbo Beaver....fuselage on one side, wings on the other, gear and engine/prop in the cabin. Just looked ugly.

MTV
 
George

Both birds are in Fairbanks, I will be back at midnight on Monday, when do you need a ride?
 
Anytime!

I will bring my fuel card, and how many will be eating dinner at the pumphouse after?

I will plan on getting to Fairbanks on Monday also, so would tuesday work?
 
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