pa 12 fuselage or jig

Does anyone make a replacement pa 12 fuse, or does any one know of a pa 12 fuse jig one the east coast??? Thanks in advance Rick

Dakota Airframe is still making PA-12 fuselages untill the FAA shuts them down for their crappy quality. Rumor has it that Airframes Inc is negociating to buy him out. If this happens then you might see a quality product. But for now, I'd pass on the Dakota Airframes PMA'ed fuselage. It's a real joke, nothing fits and there is no STC paperwork on any of his "standard" mods. Crash

thanks crash< I was going to call them today..... Anyone with a repair jig within a reasonable distance of NJ.


Also came across another pa-12 project this weekend. Still has 108 hp in it. Whose o320 stc are available today??
Can pa14 flaps be added without stc???

Rick

Kenmore has an o-320 STC, and they also have the paperwork for the type certificate that shows that the -14 flaps were approved as part of the -12 design. I don't know of anyone who's gone that route (but I researched it as part of getting my flap install certified by my current IA).

Crosswinds STOL has o-320 STC's for the 12, also. Ron Sullivan has the STC for 18 flaps on a 12, but beware of the bellcrank location as shown....it's wrong. All the 150hp mods require Supercub tail feathers. Unless you've done a 12 rebuild before, I doubt you realize what you're getting in to. Budget how many hours and dollars you think it'll take.....then double it.
SB

Rick,

I have a Stoddards PA-12 150 h.p. 0-320 motor mount, exhaust, muffler and cowlings if your interested. PM me or post here if your interested.

Mark

pa12 jig

dwight russell : has a jig in milo maine

PA-12 fuselage

Here's the home page for the PA-12 TC holder. John has been quick to respond to my e-mails so if you'd really like a new fuselage, this looks like the place to go, IMHO. Haven't bought anything from him yet, but he sure has been helpful.

http://www.cubparts.com/pages/fuselage.htm

cubparts@hotmail.com

delete

Or, is their airframe legal? Atlee and Charly say he isn't buying the STC's from them. The argument Dakota Airframe makes is their airframe is PMA'd, so STC paperwork isn't required. I bought a PMA'd part that came fully modified. The STC issue is between Dakota and the STC holder. If you buy a fuselage from Cubparts, make sure you can get it approved by the FAA. Owning the TC doesn't mean you can produce a modified airframe and sell it as an approved part.
SB

There is a lot of confusion going on with John''s manufacturing? but I would check it out, don't listen to all the bad press! He does high quality work and has always been fair with me. I did have some, and still does have a lot of crap going on with the FAA, but who doesn't. Just get the FAA to sign off on it before you buy, or go "EXPERIMENTAL". That is what I intend to do next time!

I will post some pictures of his workmanship (Top Notch)

Tim

Guys, I'm by nature a "lurker". I don't show an avatar, or get much out in the open if I can help it, but I have to speak to this issue. I have recently had dealings with John Mitchell at CubParts. I have NOTHING to say bad about him or his products. Just the opposite. His parts are excellant, his help is invaluable, and he will go two extra miles out of his way to help at no extra charge. Whatever his rep, I can't believe what I sometimes hear negative said about him could be true. Legal parts? His PA12 and J5 parts are not stc'd. They are PC'd parts. That is Production Certificate, not Supplemental Type. He also makes some PMA'd parts (I bought the modified parts for Borer's PA18 gear on a PA12 STC and they are primo!). Whatever troubles he has had with TC and FAA, so what? Who hasn't? Have any of you tried to get a production certificate into operation? That's a long row to hoe. His parts are LEGAL in the States, altho he is experiencing Red Tape-itis with TC over updating the drawings to modern day materials for the production of new, certified PA12 airplanes. Example. The wires Piper used in 1946 are not useable on a 2003 production airplane. Can you imagine how much time and money that will cost JUST to update the drawings? I recommend this group of people pull together to support this guy in getting this thing into the Black. Any jackoff can steal a brand new airplane, fly it across the border, then say something on a web page that isn't true meant to discredit the real victim. Don't believe the Ripoff Artist. Give this guy a try. If you need a PC'd PA12 or J5 airframe, call him. No STC required. Direct replacement parts from the Type Certificate Holder. Imagine that. Consider the special interests of competitors when they say they don't buy his stuff. C'mon, guys. Let's keep this man around, in the interest of Real Airplanes. Phew! That wore my Bony Ass out.

I have a friend rebuilding a 12 and like Crash has experienced it is more work to rebuild the fuselage than to buy a new one so he bought one from John. Only problem he had was that the fuselage is built for the later style door and that it didn't have a parking brake bracket.

Wingie your post has less than factual statements. First of all the TC owner can produce off the drawings provided he knows that he has the latest revision even if the part or aircraft was certified Part 23,Car 3 or whatever. Does that make it a legal part without a PMA from the FAA? The PMA is what you need to legally produce and sell the parts to the public. The Production Certificate or PC as you call it is the certificate that the FAA issues when the manufacture proves that they produce the AIRCRAFT without direct FAA oversight. Seeing this process first hand with American Champion Aircraft it is a long involved process. So he may produce top quality parts and may be great to work with but just because you own the TC for an aircraft does not give you right to produce parts without the PMA. Thats where I think the problem is no PMA so his parts aren't legal.

Matt

Matt,
You are absolutely correct, and I admit to "less than factual", but not ever to "intentionally untrue". The parts that I bought were FAA PMA'd parts according to the 8130-3 that was sent with them. I also purchased several other Piper PA12 Parts which also were PMA'd, according to the 8130-3s that came with them. I know there were no JAA-1 forms. And I also freely admit that the Type Certificate lists the type cert owners as an office address in Bellingham, Washington, USA, and that Cub Parts is in Vernon, BC, Canada. So, go on and say let the buyer beware on legality of parts. Say ask if the parts are legal. But don't say none of his parts are legal, because you may just be wrong if you do. What I really hate is when I see someone come out and say I heard that this or So and so said that and that will get me me out into the open. I got no argument with a post that says "I had a problem with this guy and here's what it was." Thats an opinion and everybodies got one. If it comes with proof, it becomes a legitimate fact. As long as it isn't hearsay. Not that it was happening too bad on this thread. But. One statement based on hearsay and 250 people think boy I better stay away from that guy, he's a thief. If one attempt to say I had no bad luck would influence even two people into giving the guy a chance, then I helped him out. Should Cub Parts are trick me, I'll tell you. But I can't see letting the guy starve out or worse, helping him starve out when he probably can't defend himself here in the forums because he is involved in litigation. I don't know if thats true, but from what I've seen posted off and on at a popular aviation bulletin board for airplanes and airplane parts by one particular guy badmouthing Cub Parts, I would not be surprised if that is the case. I might not wait for someone else to speak first so I can surgically alter his position by finding every little nit that isnt perfectly clear so I can refute his statement by having the last say while making him seem little and unimportant in the process. I dislike people who do that, Matt. But I can read between the lines. I know you can't always take what you read on the internet as gospel. And saying something don't make it so all by itself. I know he was good to me, the parts he sold to me are legal, are excellant quality, and I'll work with him again if he's still in business the next time I need him. I hope he is. Maybe everything Cub Parts was accused of doing wrong in the past was true at one time. Maybe not. I can not say because I do not know. I also know you can do something wrong by mistake as well as by design, and either way its almost unfair that you can never get out from under it if it was a mistake.

Now I'm going back under the porch. You should be able to get what I mean by what I've said. Pick apart everything I've said if you wish, but I'm back to silent running mode. I'm not used to public speaking and I do not need it to bolster my ego. I certainly am not comfortable with it. I like flying much better, its cut and dried. Thanks for filling in the blanks in my first post.

btw, you shouldn't start off your side of telling someone why they are wrong with "First of all" if you only have one point to make. It makes you seem like you never finish anything, or maybe you thought you had more to say than you actually did. And your closing statement is untrue in my experience, so I have to think your thinking is flawed. Good day.

And my point was that the Cub Parts website states they can, as owners of the TC, produce the airframe per original design. The problem is that nobody wants the original. I hope he gets the popular mods incorporated into the TC, however one does such things. Some competition for Dakota Airframe can only serve we users as a good thing. Hopefully, the quality goes up and the price comes down. Even if the price stays up, if the quality comes up, we win. Unfortunately, if you look at a dozen 12's, you'll see a dozen different ways of finishing them. That makes it hard for a manufacturer to please everyone. After buying the Dakota fuselage, I can say there is a significant amount of work I still had to do, including re-doing some things. I believe that's the nature of a 12 project. I say good luck to Dakota, Cub Parts, and all the manufacturers that support our habit.
SB

Wingie I didn't want my post to come across as it did. (yes it is vague for a reason. I didn't have time to right a whole book on the difference between what a Type Certificate, Parts Manufacture Approval, Production Certificate, Supplemental Type Certificates and how they all fit together.) It wasn't meant as a slam. I was just trying to be informative and trying to educate through this great forum that we have available for us to use. There is no reason to go hide under the porch or just to lurk in the shadows and not post here. There is a wealth of knowledge to be gained by having open dialogue and you might find that my isn't that flawed.

I personaly have zero knowledge of Cub Parts or its products. The only thing that I have read is what has been posted on different sites. That was dealing with the PMA process on his parts at that time.( that was a while ago.)

Matt

PS If you would prefer the grumpy AP answer it would be: There is no such thing as a PC'D part.