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C-90 VS 0-200

S2D

S2D

MEMBER
Montana
I'm putting together an engine for a PA-11 and was wondering what the best combination would be. I have C-90-8 case and cyls and a couple 0-200 cams. what is going to give me the best performance in a PA-11.? 0-200-8 or souped up C-90 or straight C-90. what's the best prop for this. This PA-11 has two 18 gal tanks so could be used heavy at times.
 
SD2
Use the C-90 engine, it has lots more torque than the 0-200.
also more horsepower.
0-200 @2500rpm 75hp. and at 2700 rpm 100hp.
The C-90 @2475 rpm 90hp and at 2625 rpm 96hp.
Also the C-85 @2575 has 96hp.
The 0-200 wont spin up enough to get 2700rpm and that 4 more hp,s.
Also use the Sensenich prop 74DM6 I think,and pitch it down to 40.
If you keep the airplane light (no electric) around 800# empty you will
have will have a great STOL aircraft!
The next thing is to enjoy flying it, this is very easy to do!
Scott Marrs
:D
 
S2D,

It depends if your Exp. or certified. If your certified I'd go with the C90 if Exp. I'd use 0-200. I don't know of any stc's that let you use a long enough prop on the 0-200. We're running an 0-200 with a McCauley 1B90/7443 on the Sport Trainer and it gets out very well. As for an 0-200 not turning up a prop :roll: this one will turn 2750 in level flight also our total fule is 40 gal. I wouldn't trade the 0-200 for a C90. Just my opinion.
:lol:
Si
 
100hp PA-11,O-200

I'm new. This is my first post reply. I have a J-3 with a C-85.Now it is a
PA-11 with an O-200A. Booth flew good, I get more airspeed with the O-200.
Dave.
 
Prop

Hi Diggler. I have been running the 75 for years. With 25 or 30" tires. It's probably not a good idea on a 150 due to prop clearance with the ground. It was shown on the prop list, so I never gave it any other thought. The worst problem with it is keeping the engine working hard enough to stay warm enough for carb heat. It will turn 2500 at about 19". The other thing is it will burn one gallon per hour more than a cruise prop and only go a third as far. It's a great short haul work prop. :) Jerry.
 
SD2

I have a Lyc. 0235-L2C (118hp) im my-11 and a Mc Cauley 6958 up front. She's quite heavy with all the toys and I use Hyd Wheel Ski in the Winter, (950lbs empty)
Had some fun this weekend along side another PA-11. His was stock, No electrical with a C-90. 850-6 wheels, I think he said he was (775 empty). I had 24gal of fuel on board and he had 6.
We had some friendly competition, and his bird performed every bit as good as mine. We both crused about 105mph i was at 2600rpm, he was at 2450.
I could beat him flat out if i kicked up to 2750rpm but wouldn't want to run there long.
Both of our rate of climb were close at 1000ft/min.
We both did a short field takeoff and his tracks in the snow were about 20ft shorter than mine.

Bottom line is if you going to put all of the toys on your bird your going to need more HP. If you keep it simple and light you can perform with the best of them with less.

Jeff
 
I got a C90-8 that will be in our PA-11 when done, and the prop is a KLIP-TIP 71-52, which will not turn up at all, 2300 level flight/wide open. We're going to have it re-pitched and I was thinking around anywhere from 40(?)to 44(?). What is legal for the airplane and what would perform the best?
Thanks, any help appreciated.
 
TJ, I get the same thing for Item 101.

There are some diameter limits, RPM, and "land-plane only" limits to the use of:

101. Propeller-Wood (fixed or adjustable pitch) +9 lb. (-51)

This is interesting news. I learned something tonight too.
 
T.J. Hinkle said:
Prop # 101. Wood (fixed or adjustable)
I love # 101. You can hang any "Wood" prop on it that you want to!/quote]

As long as the prop TC allows it...
Click to expand...
 
ive been doing a little research into the cam and prop stuff for a c90 in a pa18lite, in univairs book they sortve seem to recommend for a climb prop for this weight airplane to use a 1b90cm7146 mccauley, the b model is a clip tip, the a model is a rounded tip, i dont know what effect a rounded would have over a squared end. the sensenich there chart seems to point to 76ak-2-42, in the wood sensenich im coming up with a 76ck-38 for a climb prop or a w72gk-48 for a standard, has any one out there had any experience with that 76-38 wood. on what ive listed above here, is whats in the back of univairs catalog, go there and see what you come up with. on the cams here are some of the continental numbers ive come up with for the c90, 531076, 531146, it would be nice to see a chart on lifts and durations, for the 0-200a and b there listing 628421 and 643067. i think with either the props or the cams you would have to aplly to your own situation. im really wondering myself about a wood prop over a metal, some guys tell me that if the plane is stored inside thats the way to go. id sure like to here from some experience, thats what tells the story. doug
 
Thanks for the replies. From the advice that I've got so far it seems that people like the square KLIP TIP, better than the rounded tip.
 
Hi,
Which ever prop you chose, a 46" twist is a good all round performer on
the -11/-18-95 cubs with continentals.
Dave.
 
Just finished my PA11 and am flying a 72/39 on it. Using a 0-200 and it turns 2600 when timed at 24 deg. Will be moving it to 30 deg tomorrow and it should turn 2750. Have ordered a Sensenich 80CK32 and am changing out the cylinders and pistons to 9.4:1. Should dev at least 125 hp. Like the 0-200. Gives lots of options
 
Roger

Please keep us updated on this. I am very interested in your results and data.

Thanks

Bill
 
Yes, N555CR is a PA11 Replica that is expermental. I built everything except the wing which was purchased from Mark at Dakota Cub. I Started it one year ago and got my airworthiness certificayte on April 26, 2004.
I will be putting it on Full Lotus floats for Fishing in Canada and want all the power and prop I can get. Lots of fun.
Will keep you posted. I am thinking of putting all my pictures on a web page soon and will make a post when that happnes.
After I get all my initial data, I have a set of Micro VG's to put on it and will post that data also. Have a video camera mounted in the fus to record all the data so I might get a good comparison with and without.

Rog
 
Rog, with timing unchanged, and rated rpm same as original, the 9.4 pistons will give you roughly a 9.44% increase in peak power, for about 110 hp, so I assume you are getting the additional 15hp (for 125hp) from your timing changes and by running at higher rpm?

I'm currently rebuilding an O-200 with a 0.015 overbore (0.74% power increase) and 9.5 pistons (9.76% power increase) for a total of roughly a 10.57% increase in power, so I also anticipate about 110 hp at stock timing and rpm.

Like you, I want to get still more power by jiggling the timing, and by running a flatter prop, so please keep me posted on your results. My question to all, is what flat props (metal) have been either STC'd, or 337'd onto a J-3 running an O-200?
Thanks,
JimC
 
Sounds awesome. You can start a photo album on this site in the photo gallery. Where is Sweeny? I am in Graham which is about 90 miles West of Ft. Worth. Would love to check out your bird.
 
BASIC ENGINE WEIGHTS without starters, carbs, plugs and mags.

C-85-8F 158.84 pounds
C-90-8F 158.84 lbs cannot have a starter or alternator
C-90-12F 168.6 lbs can have electrical goodies
0-200 170.28 lbs

Add at least 25 pounds for the starter and alternator. And whatever type of battery you can find.

Engine horse power at Rated RPMs

C-75 75 HP at 2275 rpm
C-85 85 hp at 2575
C-90 90 hp at 2475 rpm or 95 hp at 2625rpm
0-200 100 hp at 2750 rpm. (if they were not de-tuned)

Have you ever managed to get a 0-200 to 2750 rpm for any length of time?? Not at take-off you won't.
 
Posted: Sat May 01, 2004 7:18 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just finished my PA11 and am flying a 72/39 on it. Using a 0-200 and it turns 2600 when timed at 24 deg. Will be moving it to 30 deg tomorrow and it should turn 2750. Have ordered a Sensenich 80CK32 and am changing out the cylinders and pistons to 9.4:1. Should dev at least 125 hp. Like the 0-200. Gives lots of options

How did this turn out? What timeing did you find worked the best
Scott
 
Jack Brown's Seaplane Base in florida had only C-90s in their J-3s. I asked why not an 0-200 and was told the C-90 had much better take-off performance than the 0-200 because of the inability of the 0-200 to develope the required rpm.
 
0-200 change to 9.4:1 compression

I just finished my mod to the 0-200 on my expermental PA 11, N555CR.
I installed new Continental cylinders on which both the intake and exhaust had been ported. The valves are also triple cut to help the breathing. Installed Light Speed balanced forged pistons with a 9.4:1 compression ratio. They also balanced a set of rods for me. I have one more break in run and then I will install the wood Sensenich 80 / 32 prop which is rough cut for a static run up test. Will then return it to Sensenich with the static run up data and they will finish cut it to the exact pitch. Engine is really smooth and feels very strong. Will post final data soon.

Roger
 
0-200 change to 9.4:1 compression

Finally got my new Sensenich Prop. A W80DK-27 and mounted it on N555CR, my expermental PA11 with a 0-200 with 9.4:1 pistons.
Static = 2350.
Climb out = 2700
Cruse full power = 2850
At 1600 lb it took off in 500ft and climbed out at 600 ft min at 60mph. 85 deg and 1600ft den alt.
 
Don't mean to get off topic, but where does the C85-12 fall in, compared to the C-90 and O-200? (Other than the 5 or 10 hp) I've got a C75-12 from a aercoupe that had the larger venturi and main jet installed to make it an 85 hp. It ran like a banshee in the 40 j-3 I had.
Wilbur
 
used to be a 41 j-3 on the field w/ c-85-12 that performed the same way wilbur. My chief with a C-85-8 is great, but for some reason, my 11 w/ 85 was doggy.
 
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