gas welding

[A BELLAND]

hello
I am in need of some tips on gas welding.Iwant my welds to look like the factory welds but am having problems getting a factory looking bead.I am using a little victor J-28 torch handle with a 0 tip for my tubbing welds.I also am using 5 LBS. acc. and varing OXY. between 5 to 10 LBS. what sise rod do you welders use and any other tips anyone can offer.I would be happy if i can learn to replicate the factory welds.
Thanks for any advice.Aurele

[Rick Neilson]

Use a rod equal to the tubing thickness, or slightly larger. Preheat the area to a dull red before starting weld. (especially the longeron or larger member of the weld). KEEP PRACTICING! EAA (and I, believe Wick's) has an excellent book & video on aircraft tubing welding. Can't remember the exact names, but they're great! Got them several years ago and they helped me a LOT. I've done a lot of welding over the years, but 4130 gas welding is a different animal. I usually use 5-7 pounds on both bottles. Probably the most important thing is actual flame adjustment. Too much oxygen burns, too much acetylene contaminates the weld and results in poor metal penetration. I'd really suggest you get the aircraft welding book and video. Just watching the video will triple your knowledge and the book has dozens of "helpful" hints which are invaluable. I'll post the names of the book/video tomorrow! Good luck!

[TIM AYERS]

The victor J-28 is a good tourch.
5 lbs acct.
7lbs oxy.
adjust acct for no smoke, then oxy for clean cone.
should hear a soft hiss when adjusted wright.
most people are in too much of a hurry when they weld, SLOW DOWN.
rod slightly larger then dia.
always preheat.
dab sooner then you think you should.
hope this helps.
Tim Ayers, Wizard Engineering

[don d]

After you do about 5 miles of bead, your welds will look alot better. Then when you haven't done it for awhile it will take some practice to get back into the groove. The guy at Piper was working on his 50th mile.

[Crash]

Get a good TIG welder. Your welds will look and be 10 times better then the factory's. NASCAR reguires the roll cages in all the race cars be TIG welded, why??? Because it's the cleanest strongest weld going. I can weld down to .016 aluminum and the same in steel. Crash

[SuperCub MD]

Crash is correct. As a long time gas welder, I can say that these new TIG welders make the old oxy-acetylene torch look as crude as rubbing two sticks together to start a fire. Another big benifit is you don't have to jig things as tight when you weld, there is much less warpage and distortion. If you do a lot of Cub type work, I would say that TIG cuts the repair/build time in half, and produces better results. Get one of those fancy instant darkening helmets too, sometimes, modern tecnology is good.

Whatever you use, spend a lot of time getting used to it. Get a pile of scrap tubing and build lamps, coat racks, gocarts, or whatever before you even think about making critical welds on a airplane of any kind. If you can't get the hang of it, hire a pro, it's not worth the risk.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I'm not a long time welder, but I did exactly what Mark suggested. In about two months (it's a hobby not a job for me) I went from being able to make marginally acceptable welds with the gas torch, to rather nice welds with TIG that won approval and compliments from people who have far more experience than me. Now I'm slowly developing a collection of "experimental" cub parts that will someday be airborn.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I'm not a long time welder, but I did exactly what Mark suggested. In about two months (it's a hobby not a job for me) I went from being able to make marginally acceptable welds with the gas torch, to rather nice welds with TIG that won approval and compliments from people who have far more experience than me. Now I'm slowly developing a collection of "experimental" cub parts that will someday be airborn.

[A BELLAND]

thanks everyone
I have been practicing and things are going better,still not as nice as the factory welds but this is what i am working towards. A TIG machine is on my wish list, but right now i am stuck with gas welding.
thanks again,Aurele

[jk]

Calling all TIG Welders......What kind/manufacturer of machines are you guys using? With the recent changes in laws for buyin and transporting... gas is gettin to be a hassel. Just wondering??

[SuperCub MD]

Lincoln Square Wave 175 Pro, very happy with it.

Another big TIG benny is being able to do a nice job on aluminum.

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I also got the Lincoln 175 Pro, it's so much more fun than gas welding that I gave up dating to spend more time welding. :drinking:

[TIM AYERS]

We have 4 TIG welders, All miller. 1 cc/xt, 1 185 sycrowave, 2 250 sycrowave. All linde tourches,3 are water cooled 1 is air cooled. also have Miller 185 mig machine and 1 Thunderbolt. These machines are used everyday!!!! If something happens, Adirect call to miller and the parts arrive the next mornning. Good service,price is the same here. Been using Miller for 15 years :morning:

[Steve Pierce]

I'm using a Miller Sycrowave 180 w/water cooled torch. I like it. Clyde Smith told me when Piper changed to TIG the Super Cub fuselages stretched a couple of inches.

[Crash]

The Miller and Lincoln are both good machines. Daytona also has a good machine. The TIG torch is what makes a big difference. The torch that comes with most machines from the factory is not very good for airplane work, too big and clumsy. I purchased the small C.W. swivel head tourch with different size cups and a short cap, very small and manuverable. It works much better for getting in the tight places that the angled tubing of a Cub fuselage presents. I went air cooled because that torch is even smaller then the water cooled version and with the stuff we weld on a Cub it never gets it too hot, even after welding for hours. Also the lead going to the torch is smaller and more flexable. This torch made a world of difference in my welds. Crash

[supercubc37]

We use a Miller Econo-Tig and are looking to upgrade to a Lincoln 175.


Matt

[SuperCub MD]

Get the finger tip control with the 175, it saves doing yoga type manuvers when trying to keep your foot on the petal when welding something big like a fuselage. Skip the pulse box, I'm told you don't need it if you know how to weld, and I haven't missed it. I went with the Lincoln over the locally made Miller because my tank distributor is a Lincoln dealer, and the unit I bought was the one they used at EAA Oshkosh as a demo a few years ago, so I got it a little cheaper because it was "used".

[Jr.CubBuilder]

FYI I heard that Lincoln was selling machines to homebuilders at Oshkosh 20 percent off with free ground shipping in the US. I don't know if Miller does the same or not, but it would be worth checking out if you someone was in the market and going there anyway.

[Plemmons]

I also use a Lincoln 175 and love it. I attended a Sportair TIG workshop and got a big discount on the machine. Practice is the highway to pretty beads and sound welds. Over time, look back at your earlier welds and you can see your progress.