How Much Can an Owner Do?

I have not consulted the FAR's yet, I thought it would be more enlightening to consult you all...

I am not an A or a P and I know I can change my oil, what else can I do? Can I swap my Goodyears and the Bushwheels? Can I change a tire? I know I can put air in it...

sj :help

Steve,

You can do quite a few things. The local FSDO office has a brochure and videos describing owner maintenance. The A&P/AI's on this site will detail what you can legally do.

Being pretty fumble fingered, I usually have to pay the mechanic to fix my attemps at maintenance. Sometimes Its cheaper to have the pros do it right the first time. I can change oil and add brake fluid and air, but I draw the line at something I don't know how to do.

Having said that, I always work with the mechanic at annual time and do all the grunt work (holding the dumb end of the wrench) like removing all the inspection covers and cowling. I get a better appreciation for just how tough the mechanics job is as well as learning a bit more about what make the airplane go.

I really really really really want to get an A&P certificate. The ONLY way to do it in Kansas city is for me to go to class from 6pm - 11:00pm five days a week for TWO FRICKIN' YEARS!

Yes, you can still do the "sign off" thing, but you now have to show pay stubs and stuff like that, and even though I am mechanically inclined, I can't do it 40 hours per week for two years...

The FAA does not allow correspondence courses, etc, for those of us who are adept at self study. They will not even allow distance learning at this point. I am still trying to find a way to muddle through it, but unless I quit flight instructing and denounce my homelife, I can't fit it in.

I need a personal tutor...

sj

I've been looking at the same thing here in Colorado. I figured my most reasonable option was to get a part-time job with the local shop, then be one of those apprentice mechanics that I hate to see working on my own airplanes.

Side note: I was wading through the type certificate on my J4 the other day and found a oddity -- mine was part of a handful of J4s that didn't get a 101# gross weight increase when it got a 65hp engine back in 1939. Upshot is that it still falls under the new Light Sport Plane rules (like the J3) when they become real. 80 hours of course work and I supposedly will be able to inspect and repair at least one of my airplanes. I've already had 40+ hours of Piper specific fabric instruction, so I should be on my way!

Here's the textbook answer from Part 43, Appendix A...

(c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the
following work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.
(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or both.
(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.
(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.
(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of
nonstructural items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.
(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or the removal
of structural parts or control surfaces. In the case of balloons, the making
of small fabric repairs to envelopes (as defined in, and in accordance with,
the balloon manufacturers' instructions) not requiring load tape repair or
replacement.
(8) Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.
(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail
group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings,
landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any
primary structure or operating system is not required.
(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components where no
disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is involved and
where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.
(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit,
or balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of
any primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating
system or affect the primary structure of the aircraft.
(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover plates,
cowlings, and small patches and reinforcements not changing the contour so as
to interfere with proper air flow.
(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere with the
structure or any operating system such as controls, electrical equipment,
etc.
(14) Replacing safety belts.
(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the
aircraft, not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating
system.
(16) Trouble shooting and repairing broken circuits in landing light wiring
circuits.
(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing
lights.
(18) Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance computation is
involved.
(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller or
disconnection of flight controls.
(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap
clearance.
(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.
(23) Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.
(24) Replacing and servicing batteries.
(25) Cleaning of balloon burner pilot and main nozzles in accordance with
the balloon manufacturer's instructions.
(26) Replacement or adjustment of nonstructural standard fasteners
incidental to operations.
(27) The interchange of balloon baskets and burners on envelopes when the
basket or burner is designated as interchangeable in the balloon type
certificate data and the baskets and burners are specifically designed for
quick removal and installation.
(28) The installations of anti-misfueling devices to reduce the diameter of
fuel tank filler openings provided the specific device has been made a part
of the aircraft type certificiate data by the aircraft manufacturer, the
aircraft manufacturer has provided FAA-approved instructions for installation
of the specific device, and installation does not involve the disassembly of
the existing tank filler opening.
(29) Removing, checking, and replacing magnetic chip detectors.
(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically
identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type
certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special
inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary
category aircraft provided:
(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot
certificate issued under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-
owners) of the affected aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency
for the affected aircraft (1) issued by a school approved under Sec.
147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued by the holder of the production
certificate for that primary category aircraft that has a special training
program approved under Sec. 21.24 of this subchapter; or (3) issued by
another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator; and
(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with
instructions contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance
program approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type
design.
(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted
navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that
connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel,
(excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave
frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be
designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent
instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and
operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable
sections of part 91 of this chapter.
(32) Updating self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted Air Traffic
Control (ATC) navigational software data bases (excluding those of automatic
flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance
measuring equipment (DME)) provided no disassembly of the unit is required
and pertinent instructions are provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, an
operational check must be performed in accordance with applicable sections of
part 91 of this chapter.

Go here, http://www1.faa.gov/avr/afs/fars/far-43.txt to get the full Part 43 text... It will tell you who is authorized to perform preventive maintenance, how to perform it and the recordation requirements...

As a side note to this, Part 43, Appendix A, also contains the laundry list of major repairs and alterations...

You guys need to find a good A&P that needs some help. I work by myself but I can't hang wings etc. I call the hanger rats and they are always glad to help. We weighed a Super Cub yesterday, then worked thru the computations etc. I try to explain what and why. One of them is a Pipeline pilot who has been helping more for 4 or 5 years. He has a log of everything that he does and when he is ready I will write him a letter and call my FAA Inspector so that he can take the test. I know several people who have gotten an A&P this way. I have helped a few of them. It's a way to keep your day job, learn and have fun at the same time. The only problem they have is they have to put up with me.

SJ -- this list seems useful enough that it might deserve a permanent page or link on the "Woe and Intrigue" section. I was also thinking that the Piper service bulletins on rigging should be part of our permanent archives too. I've got 'em here somewhere.

Thanks, gents! It sure does deserve it's own page. I'm working on several at the moment.

sj

SJ

I?m in the same boat, there?s got to be a way to ?Challenge? the requirements and prove that you?re worthy.

Maybe if we formed the:

AOWWTBAMA
(aircraft owners who want to be a mechanic assocation)

And raised a LOT of money, the raised a LOT of hell we could get free tickets....

sj

Your going at it all wrong. There is no corrilation between "Lots of money", and being a aeroplane mechanic.

Mark,

I suspect you are right. The most successful people in the world (in my book) have turned their "love" into their "job" and still been able to enjoy it. It is a high wire act for sure, particulary if you also have to make a living.

If you asked 10 people on this forum what "a living" was in monetary terms, you would get 10 different answers. I'm sure there are those here who have to "think" about money every day, and those who rarely if ever have to think about it.

I do sincerely believe that what makes us rich is not what we have in the bank...

sj

Hell, I just want to be able to work on my own plane like the experimental/builder guys get to do, and do it without having to go to school for two years or get a part time job. I?m not at all opposed to getting some specialized schooln, but I?m also not at all interested in working on anyone elses? plane.

Wait a minute...what am I saying?...I do that now anyway.
I?m lucky in that I?ve got a great A&P that signs off most of my work.(after the corrective lectures) but I don?t mind that one bit. I want to do it right (sans Teflon Tape ) and he?s taking the time to show me how. I?d just like to make my own log book entries, on my own plane, without burdening him. Guess I should quit my bitchn?.

SP brings up a good point, I?ve got at least a couple hundred hours (more I?m sure) working on my plane and I should probably be logging that time somewhere. Maybe that would be useful if I ever do go for my certificate. Or maybe it would only be useful for the insurance company to use against me. :roll:

I think you are on the best track with "I do that now anyway", just find a mechanic you can work with. The list of preventive items a owner can do covers a lot, and you will probably find most mechanics are willing to help you out, just ask. If you look at it closely, I think you will find the few extra signatures you can make as a A&P just isn't going to be worth the work to get the ticket. The non-schooled hourly requirement is in the thousands, isn't it? I suppose most think that if you get your A&P, after 3 years you can get your IA and sign off your own annuals. What most people probably don't know, is that a IA must be renewed annually, and the cost of maintaining a IA ticket is a lot higher than the cost of maintaning a Cub.

The misconception most owners get of a A&P is when they watch them work on their little puddle jumper and say "Shit, I can do that". You need to understand that the A&P comes with a lot of privilidges. When you get that ticket you are supposed to be capable of working on anything that flies. Many of my days over the years may have started out working on a Cub, and ended working on the latest and greatest high end jet, or anything inbetween. A A&P is supposed to have a working knowledge of everything that flys. From the basic little flat engines, to the largest supercharged radials, turbo props, and of course jets. Structures from wood and cotton, steel, aluminum, to the latest composites. Systems from basic cables, to advanced hydraulics and electronics, fuel systems from a one tank gravity feed to aircraft with fuel cells that number in the teens, pressurised cabins, don't forget helicopters, better know your cyclic from your collective....ect, on and on.

Does two short years of full time training seem like it would be enough to learn all these things? It's not, two years just covers the basics, than you really start to learn. Advanced schools like Flight Safety are great, intensive and type specific. A good mechanic is like a good pilot, you never stop learning.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bitching or wining, I love what I do, and thrive on the challenge. I just want to get the point across that there is no equivalent "private" A&P ticket. It's all or nothing. Trying to get your A&P having just logged a bunch of time farting around with your Cub would be like training for your private and expecting to get all your ratings through ATP, it just doesn't work that way. A&P tickets should be hard to get, because those that have them are charged with the responsability of keeping our aircraft fleet safe, from Cub to airliner, and enough bad stuff gets through already, (I'm still trying to get over that welded main spar). God help us all if they start passing out A&P tickets to shade tree mechanics. Corespondence school? Think about that a minute sj. The next time your sitting in the back of a airliner, think about that aircraft being maintained by a bunch of corespondence school flunkies. Maybe it's the first day on the job for some of them, and the first airplane they have ever TOUCHED, was when they put the one your sitting in together.

Sorry, that turned into a rant and rave. I'll climb down off my high horse now and go fix some more planes.

how much can an owner do

Not to mention:
The A&P has not only the responsibility but the LIBILITY! No matter what happens it comes down to the individual mechanic.
Most shops want to pay $12.00 - $20.00 per hr. hard to make a living!
If you work for your self, The customer wants to pay $15.00 per hr, if they pay. No offence to anyone on this net but after 35 yrs dealing with the public in acft and boat repair I found Doctors and Lawyers to be the worst.
When you think that a bag of potato chips cost $4.29 now, and the last tune-up my wife got on her car was $300.00 what most A&Ps Make is not worth a damn. Just my opinon, everybodys got one.

Tim A

Mark! now I know why I missed you when your computer was down! You make so darn much sense, I can even understand you!

I agree full hardily with everything you had to say. I don't have a ticket, problably won't get own, I have just been working on the little guys from cubs to Beavers for 25+ years and when I get to something I am not sure of I hunt down the guy that does, pay him his "going rate" and learn from his knowledge and experience.

I would love to know 1/2 of what some of you have forgotten! This forum and others is a vast data base for knowledge! I really appreciate SJ's effort to organize it as it gets bigger, that in itself is a daunting task! Keep up the good work all of you! And Mark, TJ, DC and other AP's/ IA's Please don't give up the ghost! WE need you all!

Tim

Mark, very well said. I especially like the part about an owner watching some simple operation and thinking he can handle the whole ball 'o' wax.

Tim A., I agree with your thoughts except for the Doctor/Lawyer thing and them being worst. I've had good and bad customers from all means.

Tim R., you've got lots of knowledge hanging around up there. Don't sell yourself short. But don't be afraid to have another set of eyes look at your "owner maintenance" either.

Dave Calkins.

David M. Calkins said:

Tim R., you've got lots of knowledge hanging around up there. Don't sell yourself short. But don't be afraid to have another set of eyes look at your "owner maintenance" either.

Dave Calkins.

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Not afraid at all to do that! I have spent 100''s of hours learning from my peers and will continue to do so! Just today I start helping a very talented cub builder straighten a fuselage and get it ready to cover! I learned yesterday a gob from him and look forward to every minute I can spend at his shop! He has that "inventive" mind that I lack! patience is a virtue, proplem is I want it "right now".

Tim

Didn't building an airplane count toward the practical experience necesssary for an A&P rating at one time?
Randy

Yes it does. My Dad used his building experience but it wouldn't count towards the power plant. He rebuilt an O-320 under my supervision and has done a lot of engine maintenance. That sufficed my local Inspector.

According the FAA you cannot work on your own plane towards the rating time.

sj

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I heard that from the mouth of a FSDO inspector, but he could be wrong....

sj

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T.J. Hinkle said:

Steve:
That took about 2 minutes. Tell your Politically Correct , Minority Hire, Know nothing, Guvment dweeb, he should read the FARS. Peruse FAR Part 65.77, Experience Requirements. If he can show me where it says you cannot gain experience from working on your own Aircraft, I'll quit drink COORS LIGHT and start drinking White Wine!
Sorry for the Rant, but I'm tired of the Guvment telling people crap that is not correct. When they tell me something like that, I very innocently say, " Oh, I didn't know that, could you show me the FAR where I can find it?"
Gotcha YA!t

Click to expand...

Geez T.J., don't hold back!...

It's ironic that just tonight Supercub and I were discussing an Avionics Inspector @ Fresno who probably isn't politically correct (likes small airplanes, rides a Harley), definitely isn't a minority, is very conversant regarding airplanes and is way to nice a guy to call a "Guvment dweeb"...

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Believe me, it did not make me happy either, but it could vary fsdo to fsdo as well - like field approvals. I will check again, but I think that was his final answer...

sj

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I may try to approach it more diplomatically, but I will see what I can find out....

sj