PA-18 Building a "NEW" one..........

Any of you guys have knowledge concerning building a new supercub? Have looked at various "look alike" kits, WagAero kits, etc. Have decided to either re-build an existing pa-18, or build a new one from scratch. Would be interested if anyone has gone this route, and any details concerning component suppliers, tricks for saving $'s, etc. Thanks, ahead, for any info.........

Rick, Welcome Home to SuperCub.org.

Building new from scratch will get you to about $90K US in parts costs. That's the word from Bill at Stoddards here in Anchorage.

Rebuilding a PA-18 can take so many different avenues that it's tough to give concise advice, other than, if you have a flyable a/c, continue flying it while you build up a new fuselage. When the new fuse is finished, take the flyable a/c apart and finish the rest of it.

If you want the experience of building a Cub, then build a Cub, or whatever lookalike.

If you want to fly, go buy a servicable Cub following a thorough pre-purchase inspection performed by a mechanic who works on Cubs alot.

You'll get the advice you seek here at SC.org.

Dave Calkins.

PS If you hope to save money by doing a rebuild, buy a servicable a/c instead. As long as it's had a thorough pre-purchase inspection, there are likely to be few expensive surprises.

Thorough pre-purchase inspection is defined as:

An annual inspection performed by a mechanic highly experienced in the type of a/c in question, and with all discrepancies listed for you to look over. And performed by someone you think you can trust. And someone who will agree with this paragraph.

Really, I could go on and on.

Dave

Building a Cub

Having just finished such a project I'll put in my 2 cents worth. You will avoid a major hassle with the feds if you start with an existing airplane. Even one that has been totally destroyed will have a data tag and an airworthyness certificate. It will also very probably have a great many parts that are servicable and if you had to buy them new they add up in a hurry. There are a great many small parts in a Cub (pullys, brackets, etc.) and none are cheap. This is another reason to start with a "project" Cub.

All of the parts to build a PA-18 are available at a variety of places including Univair, Wag Aero and Cub Crafters. Airframes, Inc. makes a very good fuselage. Cub Crafters, F. Altee Dodge and several others have STCs for some very worthwhile mods.

You will find that advice and opinions will be abundant here at SC.org. Ask lots of questions and you will get more answers than you may want. I only wish the site had been here when I was stumbling through my project.

Good luck and enjoy

PA-18 Project

If you are thinking of saving some money by building a PA-18 from parts, FORGET IT!! I ran an Excel spread sheet on just the parts and came up with $96,000.00. That does not include labor. You can buy a real nice late model low time Piper PA-18 for 70 to $80,000.00. I am in the middle of a PA-18 project using mostly new parts but my old paperwork. It's not the cheapest way to go, but I do it as a hobby as I don't have TV. If you want to fly, you can go anywhere with a stock PA-18 (Borer prop and 31" radials) as the fanciest Cub out there if you know how to fly it. Look at Tim's post under Cafe, "Short Field Landings", I believe that the Cub on the sand bar is a stock '79 with a Borer prop and 31" radials. The guy at the controls knows how to fly that plane. Crash

PA 18 project

Sorry guys but I have to reply, BUILD IT YOUR SELF. I would rather fly somthing i built Than trust someone else.My last 2 annuals would have paid for the airframe alone, and there was nothing wrong with my piper execpt a burnt bulb and new airfilter.

A new airframe is 10K so that's 5K each for an inspection. Expensive annual, I would look for a new shop.

What do annuals cost these days?? I paid about 4K in 1998 for one in Anchorage but that included new HD gear and I thought that was too much. Even if it took a week (which it doesn't) to annual a cub that would only be 2K at $50 an hour.

1/3/03 I was replying to the previous post that said "Sorry guys but I have to reply, BUILD IT YOUR SELF. I would rather fly somthing i built Than trust someone else.My last 2 annuals would have paid for the airframe alone, and there was nothing wrong with my piper execpt a burnt bulb and new airfilter."

pa18 project

I am looking for a new shop.lucky for me i am not looking for a new wife when she found out. I think I just got ripped it happens. that and intrest rates makes me want to build.

If you build experimental, one can build many simple yet expensive parts and build for a reasonable amount of $$$. Example: I can build a cowling for $200, floor boards $40, leading and trailing wing edges for $200, seat frame for $20, flaps and ailerons (not hard to build) for $200, tail feathers for $250 and so on. Buy or scrounge fusalage, engine mount, some control systems, wing spars, experimental ribs, compression struts and drag wires, fuel tanks, lift struts, landing gear and so on.

Don

What did the shop do for how much money. I hear people say their annual cost $3,000. No way. The annual is opening all the panels and doing the required maintenance. Then you add the repairs, the new whatever you want installed. To say your annual cost $$$ is like saying your SC cost $200,000. What does that include? Hanger rent , insurance, maintenance etc. I know there are crooked mechanics but there are also owners who don't relize what it takes to repair and maintain an aircraft. I can tell you horror stories. Owners side $5,000 annual, mechanics side had exhaust completely rebuilt due to corrosion, removed engine and engine mount to repair cracked engine mount, on and on

Rick, I'm building one from scratch right now. I don't have great piles of advice to offer, but I have learned a few things in the last year. Everything that seems fairly straight forward seems to take about six times longer to build than you thought it would. I finished the seat a couple months ago (as finished as it will get before I fit it to the fuselage) I thought I would rip through that, but it took a few weeks. Look at all those goofy angles. There's quite a bit of fiddling to get it jigged up for welding
I got into it already having the mindset that the building would be a hobbie, I'm still flying beat up rental Cessna planes. I think you're better off just buying something if you really want a plane soon. In my case I'd rather rent a crapper plane with busted flaps and a scratchy radio, than own one.
I don't think it's going to cost me $90K to get this plane flying, but then again ..............
The homebuilt does have a bunch of advantages though. You can do your own annuals (you built it) although in my case I'll probably enlist another set of eyes to check for things I might have overlooked. Another one is that you can take all this STC/337 yada yada stuff and forget about it.
The downside is the time involved, and not being able to fly part 135. In my case I've got nothing but time, and I generally shun passengers.

There is a requirement for a 337 on a homebuilt. I know some guys that fell in this trap. If you modify the airplane after the FAA has inspected it and it is considered a major repair or modification you must submit a 337. Granted the Feds don't know what to do with it but it might help help if you carry insurance to be totally legal.

Good Point Steve!

Tim

Steve Pierce said:

There is a requirement for a 337 on a homebuilt. I know some guys that fell in this trap. If you modify the airplane after the FAA has inspected it and it is considered a major repair or modification you must submit a 337. Granted the Feds don't know what to do with it but it might help help if you carry insurance to be totally legal.

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Sorry Steve, I'm gunna have to disagree on this one...

With the possible exception of having to carry a 337 for cabin installed fuel tanks (I'm not sure about this one), Part 43, and consequently 337s, do not apply to experimental amateur builts... If you make a major alteration to an am-blt, you have to comply with the Operating Limitations which state that you must notify the cognizant FSDO, no 337...

Disclaimer: I read all this on the back of a Blackjack gum wrapper (shows how old I am!) and I threw it away with my old gum...

Cuby, You might check into it. There was an article in Sport Aviation a few years ago about a guy who modified his fuel system in a Long-EZ and crashed. The insurance co. wouldn't pay cause he violated an FAR by not doing a 337 on the alteration. My Dad changed props on the Kitfox he built and had to fill out a 337. The FSDO didn't know what to do with it. He looked it up. I'll ask him about it. These are examples of what I remember happening. It just goes back to cover thy ass. I'll get the poop and post it if it is true.

I got to see that Steve! I got a scanner, but I ain't never seen anyone post the Poop? (that sounds really ugly) Just post the facts ok!

Didn't all this come up in the Johne Denver crash as well? Seems the fuel selector was modified from where it was originally installed or somthing like that?

Tim

Steve Pierce said:

Cuby, You might check into it. There was an article in Sport Aviation a few years ago about a guy who modified his fuel system in a Long-EZ and crashed. The insurance co. wouldn't pay cause he violated an FAR by not doing a 337 on the alteration. My Dad changed props on the Kitfox he built and had to fill out a 337. The FSDO didn't know what to do with it. He looked it up. I'll ask him about it. These are examples of what I remember happening. It just goes back to cover thy ass. I'll get the poop and post it if it is true.

Click to expand...

Well Steve, this might be another example of the "One FAA" interpreting things one way in Fresno and another way in Texas... Fortunately, I don't have to do one in Fresberg... Remember, if a Fed can't show you in the rule book where something's required, it probably ain't...

Steve no 337's. The way the reg reads if the mod appreciably changes the flight characteristics then you must notify the FSDO in writing and have the aircraft re-inspected and enter into phase one flight test again. The flight test is usually 5-10 hrs. Then you do the sign off again and away you go. The fuel system that you mentioned is true and it boils down to the slimy Insurance co. not wanting to pay because of a loophole (of sorts) but still owner/operator responsibility to know the regs.

Matt

I knew something had to be done involving the Feds. My Dad changed props on the Kitfox he had and he notified them and they hemed and hawed for a weak until he pressed them and they finally figured out what they were supposed to do. I knew you couldn't just go out and change something major without some kind of BS. That would make it to easy and when it comes to airplanes we can't have that.

Not only the insurance companies, the 'lawyers' and 'judges' that award these ridiculous settlements (sorry ranting again) The reason you can't buy the Imperial on/ off valves anymore from Univair is that they were taken out of production due to the "Denver BS case". the crash was Pilot error!, Case of celebrity, $ and not profiecient! (NO disrespect to the family).

Tim