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Pre Heaters

Ursa Major

Ursa Major

Registered User
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Its getting to be that time of year again. The last couple of mornings had a little frost and I've been putting off getting a new heater for much too long.

I'm lucky enough to have access to an electrical outlet at my tie down so I'm wondering if anybody has some advice on a good electric pre heater. I'm sorta leaning toward the Reiff system with a sump and cylinder heat elements. Does anybody have any experience with this brand? I've also looked for the portable automotive type of heater with not much success. Most of those I've found are too big to fit under the cowling.

I've used Red Dragons and Northern Companion propane and gas heaters in the past but now that I have electricity I'd like to try the slow cooker method. Any suggestions?
 
I've got Reiff, and it sure puts some heat in those barrels, just where you want it. The oil gets warm too, with it's pad.

I've used the ceramic cube heaters, too, and they'll do a fine job if you have some time.

Northern Companion's and other camp-stove based heating systems work fine, just don't walk away from them. And that's a couple hours of "not walking away from them". Which is fine, if you have no other options or don't mind the wait. You need to be carrying one anyway, for survival or the morning after an out-landing.

Tanis are great, but you better have time for the barrels to conduct some heat from the head-mounted elements. The head-mounted elements warm the heads and definitely help to vaporize the fuel/air charge for easy starting, and the oil gets warm from it's pad, but with cold barrels, you ain't doing them any favors.

Big Bear already knows what I think.

What do the rest of you "real" Cub flyers think?

Dave Calkins.

Ski flying for coyotes and wolves is the most fun you can have. Yes, that's a period at the end of the sentence.
 
Symantec Heater

I've had the Symantec Heater for three years. I leave it on all winter, my open T hangar has free electric. I was cautioned that it would "cook the oil". When I had the pan off this summer for the oil pump gear AD we could find NO evidence that the heater was even on the oil pan. It is thermostatically controlled to 300 degrees according to it's literature. It works fine, I've always got oil temps above 100 degrees on startup. Use a Kennon engine cover as well. Happy with both....Jeff
 
Mike:
Just bought a Reiff. I'll let you know. He has an extensive website with a lot of infomation on it. I think it is www.reiffpreheat.com. Tried a lot of other heaters over the years that did not require electric service -- red dragon, kerosene heaters and Northern Companion. Never had electric before this year. I have to say I really like the Northern Companion. It is light and the MSR stove delivers a good amount of heat. I had to fashion a velcro opening in my engine cover to get the flow right. In the bush, I will continue to use it. The downside of the Northern Companion is the barrels. I doubt you can do the same job a Reiff or Tanis can without barrel heat elements. All said, I still will always carry my Northern Companion as it is so simple and reliable and does not need electric. One note of caution: I used 100LL in it for a while and it really fouled it up. I now use white gas -- most times.
 
Good info. The Reiff website has some interesting stuff, thanks Slowgo.

I too, carry a Northern Companion for heating away from electricity. I've alway used Coleman fuel or unleaded in it because thats what happened to be in the fuel bottles I use in my MSR camping stoves. I just sorta figured I could refill them from the sump with 100 LL when I need to. Its good to know that even though the stove is supposed to be "multi fuel" that there is a chance it won't work on avgas. I guess I'll start carrying the extra jet and stove maintenance kit (from REI) just in case (as well as a full bottle of stove fuel).

I've had the MSR stoves clog and sputter while camping, but they were easy to fix if you had the right parts.
 
I had Reiff hotbands on for a couple of years, and never found any sign of warmth around the cylinders, even when the little band was hot. I figure the cooling fins on the cylinder were dissipating the heat pretty effectively. Last year I didn't put them back on after an engine change. I never missed them. I do have a Reiff pad heater, and it works, but whether it works better than the 50 watt pads they sell (a lot cheaper) at Bearing Engineering, I can't tell. I've used both. My favorite is a 700 watt "Little Buddy" fan-forced heater from Napa. It's made for car interiors, but has a metal housing and no tip-over switch. It gets the whole engine warm in reasonably short order. Mount it on the motor mount tubes with adel clamps. I use a generator, and only plug in for two or three hours, so if you intend to stay plugged-in all the time, the Reiff's or Tanis are probably the better way to go.
SB
 
Yeah, an engine cover would make a heck of a difference, Stewart.

Just joking.

Stewart, you must have had some kind of problem.

I've reached through my cover to feel the cylinders and been unable to keep my hand on them, they're so hot.

I hope you got your money back from Reiff. Mine and others' work incredibly well. Were you powering it with a generator or maybe a looooonnngg extension cord? Something had to be wrong!

I've done the little buddy thing with a generator also. It works OK. I used that system for about 3 seasons when I had no other power source.

Dave Calkins.
 
Stewart:
I have one of those little car heaters, too. FBO s all over Alaska use them. But I have always been scared of them catching on fire. If they did, and you did have insurance, you can forget it. They typically have a thermostat that kicks on and off, and I have always wondered if that would induce spark, which if you had a carb or gas problem, could be a big problem. Positioning them for a clear air draw and discharge also is a challenge with a cub. I have been told the fire problem is highly unlikely and not a rational fear. But with what I have in that cub, I just could not leave the heater on for three or four hours and come back. Without the fire fear, I suspect you are correct that those car heaters are the most thorough and efficient heaters.
 
I've used my Little Buddy since I DID catch my airplane on fire with a Red Dragon. I worried about it the first time I used it, but not since. If you're sticking a Northern Companion under your plane, the Little Buddy should seem safe. But, I also keep a combustion heater similar to the Companion in my plane. It heats engines, fingers, hot dogs. Little Buddy can't do that!
SB
 
David,
How long did you plug in before you had warm barrels? I was using a 1000 watt geny with only about 15 feet of heavy extension cord. Maybe something was wrong. I was disappointed, but like I said, I only plugged-in for 2-3 hours, so maybe the bands just need more time. The Buddy/oilpan heater combo do the trick in about an hour, two if it's down around 10 below.
SB
 
I usually feel each band and the pad when I first plug in so I know they're gonna do their job.

The best I can recall the time I felt the barrels early enough in the pre-heat to be surprised by the barrel temps, it couldn't have been more than an hour. Someone else had plugged the thing in, so I can't be certain of the elapsed time 'til I stuck my hand in the cover, but my guess is that it could not have been more than 2 hours, but was probably less than one.

Check all the ratings for the elements of the Reiff system, they may pull more power than a 1000 watt gen. can do, on its best days.

Later, Dave Calkins.
 
I use a Symtec heater and a Cunningham insulated engine cover. I plug in over night and in the morning its around 85 in the engine compartment. If I will be flying everyday for a week or so I leave it plugged in all the time.
 
Tanis

I like the Reif system for heat but you can plug 3 Tanis equipped Cubs into a 1000W Honda gen. See the new 1000 Honda? Lightweight, plastic shrouded, quiet and able to fit in the baggage of afore-mentioned Cubs. Did this last year at Rainy. We had a couple guys buy them here. Great little unit (even fits into a Husky's rather smallish compartment) Brad
 
Reiff claims the bands at 50W each and the pad can't be more than 250 watts, so a 1000W generator isn't the problem. Maybe I'll call Reiff.
SB
 
I would agree with the risk of fire with the "engine mounted" car heaters. I have in the past (as did most of us in the Anchorage area) used them. The problem seems to be the vibration eventually takes the bearings out of the units, especially when they get 'hot' in the cowl area, (when not in use) I never experienced a fire? I did just in time catch it when it whent up in smoke (bolted onto the motor mount) of my 185! I think the brand was (exell) or something like that! After that little episode, I would just take one with me and set it in the cowling on the cub, resting it on the brace off of the exhaust)

As for gas fired units, I always carried my MSR GX multi fuel, a 6/4 stove adaptor, with holes in the bottom for intake air, and a 1' section of pipe, and some scat hose, It all fit in a 5 gallon bucket and worked good when needed.

Also we used to make a gas heater out of a modified "gas truck heater" from Military surplus--You guys in Alaska might get a hold of Rod Russell with Precision Welding? and or Bill Bullard? These were great super safe heaters!! ran fine on av gas and 12volts!

Tim
 
I've used the indash car heaters for at least 15 years now never had any problems. Just put it in the front of the cub on top of the cyls and plug it in. Did have one model that the overheat protector would burn out and you would have to bypass it. but up on top the cyls seems the safest place to put them, cause it would take an actual fire to cause problems, not just a few sparks, although I've never seen that. course if you have the money, still think tanis is the best way to go.
 
I have also used the under dash type car heaters for many years. Most of them have a temperature controlled thermostat so there isn't much danger of overheating.
 
Slowgo
Just bought a Reiff. I'll let you know.
Click to expand...

I?m considering the Reiff system now that the temps are getting down into the teens. I see that you just got one and I was wondering how you like it?
 
Cavy,

I just put on a Reiff last month. The only time I've plugged it in was during the installation to see if it worked. The weather's been too warm to really try it out. It was 55 degrees in Anchorage yesterday, can you believe it?

Installation was pretty easy. Looks like a good unit.
 
Does the EZ bond to the oil pan like the Reiff ? Is one better than the other ?
Reiff ad claims the hot strip is better than the silicone pad. Any comments ?
 
Cavy:

I have not plugged the Reiff in yet other than during the installation. As the other comments noted, it has been in the mid 50s up here with no snow. I did buy the metal bar versus the pad and it was a pain to install. I suspect the pad would be even worse, so I would recommend the bar. I also talked to a Lycoming guy, an AI, and he thought the system was pretty good, but recommended not leaving it on continuously without flying the ship as it can build condensation. When winter gets here, I will let you know how it works.
 
Silicone pads suck! They can burn out easy if the entire pad is not making contact or separates a bit from the pan and their output is marginal in the ones I have seen.
I just installed a Symtek in my cub. Aluminum plate that is bonded to the pan with a 2 part epoxy glue that is heat cured. It puts out, I believe, 2.5 amps and is thermostat controlled so you can leave it on indefinetly. I have heard nothing but good things about the Symtek and am anxious to see how it stands up.
 
Funny time of the year to bring up this topic again but, now that winter has gone by, what did you guys think of the Reiff system?

Performance, cost, etc...?
 
well it is realy funny to talk about preheating in the summer. If you have everything at your base available that is nice. But when you stay in the bushes in wintertime for sevaral days you want to have it simple. I prefer
a little catalytic heater and colemanfuel and the engine will stay warm well below 30. Aditional I use the fuel for lighting and cooking.
 
Yep, those dang heater cords, why just the other day I got mine caught I my back cast, felt a little somtin...no worry, double hauled that sucker out ...way out ...and to my surprise, when it hit the water the electrical short wacked a five foot , 38lb pike. Man that was good eatin. OOPs forgot the camera agian. :drinking: :drinking:
 
A couple of years ago I commented that my Reiff Hot Bands didn't do enough to justify putting them on. Dave Caulkins made a comment that something must be wrong. Awhile later, I contacted Mr. Reiff and ended up receiving his newer 100 watt Hot Bands. I just got around to installing them a couple of days ago. My opinion has changed.

I installed and secured the bands, and plugged them into a 1000 watt generator to test them. Literally 30-45 seconds later, the bands were hot enough to burn my fingers. I don't mean a little warm, either. I mean real face-pinching dance-in-circles cussing burn. These babies put out the heat! What a huge improvement over the old 50 watt bands.
SB
 
Engine Heaters at a reasonable cost

I have used the Reiff cylinder bands and the oil pan system on a Cirrus SR 20. Works great with no problems. However, on the PA 18, although the previous owner installed the pan heater ( and its works, I tried it once), I use a milk house heater from farm and fleet controlled by a HD theromstat laying on the cylinders . A 6" flexible tube fits under the cowling and is held into place by a wire hook. You can buy the thermostats from anyone selling kerosene space heaters. Also, I saw them at Menards, building supplies for $6.95. I have less than $30 in my heating system and it works great for me. I have only tried this system down to about -5F so, I don't really know if it would be adequate below that temp.

This system is used by about 20 planes that I know of with great success. One PA 28-235 has been doing this for 19 years with no problems whatsoever. I set the thermostat at 75F and leave it for the winter. Today when I started the engine, the oil was already at 90 plus degrees F. I keep an old sleeping bag around the engine cowling since I only use it inside. My wife promised to make me some prop covers for Christmas. She thought Wilbur's coyote covers were a bit uncivilized......

I'll try to post some pictures in the gallery since I am not to good at doing it here.

Tom From Iowa

PS. Additionally, the heater has its own thermostat and the heater automatically shuts off if it tips over for any reason (monster mice or something like that).
 
Just installed a Reif XP system today and went pretty smooth. Suggest using more adel clamps rather than ty-wraps. Letting epoxy cure for next couple of days.......seems like a nice system but still don't like a lot of wires on top of engine case. Catches bugs and moisture!
 
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