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Long Step Information

FlipFlop

Registered User
Maintaining at Flight Level Zero, requesting lower
I'd appreciate the dimensions, material and type of attachment for the right gear long step... I don't need the approval as it's for my "wanna be Cub" (Cuby)...

Thanx...

David in "Lovely" Fresno
 
F. Atlee Dodge Aircraft Services produce the one that I install.

It's the STC'ed one.

The material is aluminum (I'm not certain of alloy).

dimension is about 1.25" X 1.25". It's probably 1/8 to 3/16 thick. Make the length whatever you want.

It's attached by Umpco tubing clamps with 1/4" bolts through the strut, clamp, and then a self-locking nut.

I'll measure one and get the clamp part numbers today, and get back with you tonight, if you like.

Dave Calkins.
 
Thanx Dave... Any help is appreciated... I'm tired of neutering myself getting in and out of the Cub...
 
Yeah, that long step works great.

Getting in or out, also for fueling.

It's simple, and very tough, though it weighs a bit.

I'll get back to you.

Dave Calkins.
 
Dave,
Does Atlee Doge have a website? It seems they get mentioned a lot on this site and I'd like to know more about what products they have available.
Mike
 
I don't believe Atlee Dodge has a website. One of the Alaska guys might be able to send you one his brochures if he still has uses them.
 
Atlee Dodge Step

Dave,
I got a long step a couple weeks ago. The only paperwork was a small yellow tag that said "FAA-PMA and Approved for PA-18". I called back and asked them what paperwork to submit and Atlee said it's STC'ed. Alas they forgot the STC paperwork with shipping so I'm waiting on that. While I was talking I asked what the weight was and he said he didn't know but it's negligible weight change so not necessary to revise W/B info. I put my son on the bathroom digital scale with and without it and recorded a 2lb weight change..For now I'm going to leave the fabric on the gear and see if I can use it with the front and rear portion that extends beyond the gear to get in and out of the airplane...Jeff
 
Dimensions of the "Long Step": EDITED SO I CAN VISUALIZE WHIRLED PEAS......As if visualizing it would make it happen.

Overall length ---- inches

---" X ---" aluminum angle, --" thickness

aft hole is ----" from aft end
forward hole is -----" from aft end

aft clamp is MS ---------, depending on gear leg tubing diameter
forward clamp is MS ----------, depending on gear leg tubing dia.

I forgot to mention that the bolts go through the step, then a spacer, then the clamp, then a self-locking nut. The spacer is between the clamp and the bottom of the step, causing the clamp to be squeezed.

With the hole placements that I've given, the step will mount in pretty much a specific distance from the fuselage, if you insure that the step is mounted parallel to the longeron. Be prepared for a little bit of a shift when you first put weight on it. Then it will be solid. Think about this before you cut the fabric on your gear leg, if it's covered.

Hope this does it for you. The clamps may be tough to find unless you go through one of the aircraft hardware specialty houses.

Dave Calkins.
 
Thanx Dave...

That's exactly the information I needed....

Thanx again...
 
Long Step Attachment

If your gear leg is being repainted or powder coated, it's a good idea to weld a short piece (1 1/8") of 3/8" .049 tubing to the front and rear gear tubes to attach the long step to. It's a much cleaner set up. Crash
 
Check with an a/c h-ware supplier. One time, for a completely different usage, I tried to buy some from Atlee and he wouldn't sell 'em, 'til I explained it wasn't for a "copy" step.

He claims that the clamps are purchased by the thousand, maybe they are.

An aviation hardware specialty house should have these, by the piece, and any other "uncommon" hardware you need. Buy their catalogs, if you make a purchase, they are invaluable when you need to build something, but don't have a certain piece of hardware in hand. They are loaded with drawings of the parts, with dimensions, material type, etc.

I like Crash's mount method. It's gotta be the more solid way to do this.

Dave Calkins.
 
Dave had previously mentioned Umpco clamps... I went on their website, www.Umpco.com, and found clamp details, as well as the minimum order appears to be 1 clamp...
 
You could just buy the step from Atlee.... Instead of copying it. It's also bent up on the ends to keep you from slipping off, comes powder coated with nonslip stuff on top and everything you need to install it at a reasonable price without all the screwing around. The guy is trying to make a living, why copy his stuff to (maybe?) save a few bucks? He's done more to make sensible mods for Cubs over the years than anybody, and his stuff is always reasonably priced compared to those who have stolen his ideas, and he has every right to be pissed off when others "copy" his mods.
 
Come on, Mark. Give this guy a break.

Grasshopper David is going to buy a piece of aluminum angle and cut it to length, then he'll drill a couple holes in it and paint and non-skid it.

The guy wants to put his hand skills to work and have some fun working on his experimental Cub.

And when I talked about the clamps, I wasn't lying to Atlee that they weren't for a copied step installation. And by the way, he GAVE them to me free.

I know Atlee, buy stuff from him, and have a friendly (usually) banter with him from time to time when stopping by to eat some peanuts and drink a cup of coffee. I send him exhaust repair work. I also patronize ABC Mech., the welding repair shop owned by Dane Wagner of Leading Edge Exhaust, and ride snowmachines with he and his adult son.

I need both of these guys to continue in business in order for me to continue in MY business. Buying from them streamlines the processes of setting up the a/c I deal with. They are both gifted with fertile minds, and have come up with cool stuff.

But I see no harm in David's long step "project". It's experimental!

Mark, next time you weld-in a cabin x-brace or tail brace tube, think about what you just typed in your last post. I'm sure you're not calling Alaska to have Atlee send you a piece of 4130 to weld onto some fuselage.

I agree with you that we should patronize these suppliers, but if the part ain't available, or the cost too great, an "owner produced part" (FAA- described version) is an acceptable replacement...even more so for David's EXP. Grassshopper.

Peace.

Dave Calkins.
 
I've got a lot of 4130 laying around here, but I do use Atlee's cross brace STC on PA18's,(he gives it away, so why not?), and have bought and put in his tail brace, (installs with the fabric on). But this is all beside the point. My point is that the basic experimenter will probably spend as much on materials to duplicate his step, even if they consider their time worthless. A running board for a pickup would probably cost more, and most people would buy a truck running board before they even thought about trying to make their own. Atlee makes a good product at a fair price, just buy it, bolt it on, go fly, and be happy.

If grasshopper David want's to duplicate Atlee's part exactly, he could just call him and ask for the dimensions/part numbers, (I'd recommend holding the phone away from your ear, Atlee may be of the opinion that he should just continue neutering himself instead).
 
Sorry Mark, apparently I struck a nerve...

I have no desire to circumvent the STC process or "steal" from Mr. Dodge... In fact, I hold an STC to install a turbocharger on a Cessna 185... If someone "reverse engineered" my installation to turbo their 185, I'd be very upset... If someone wishes to make the same installation on their 6 cylinder, Continental powered homebuilt, have at it... After going through the STC process on my 185, I can appreciate why Mr. Dodge feels that he should be renumerated for his efforts... But, we're talking an "experimental" here... If I purchase Mr. Dodge's step and it fails, he has a liability issue to contend with... If I make the step and it fails, I pay for the Doctor bills... Once again, this is an experimental aircraft, when it was built, it was an experiment, when I screw something on it, it's an experiment and more importantly, when I fly it, it's an experiment...

Just for the record, when I install this step, it won't be just like Mr. Dodge's step... It may be longer, it may be shorter, it won't be powder coated, it probably won't have bent up ends, but Mr. Dodge and Mark Drath will be happy to know that if it fails, the failure is David's experiment...

Off from soapbox...
 
I just thought of a question. Would a bolt on step be a Major Mod or a Minor Mod? Ifs it a Minor Mod no STC would be needed.
 
Yes, this strikes a nerve. If you want to experiment, than buy some materials and experiment, I've got no problem with that, but this whole discussion has basically been a "how to" to duplicate someones product, (a product that IS available today, and not outrageously priced). And remember, you guys aren't the only ones reading this stuff, someone else can use your info to duplicate the produce. I don't give a crap about weather it goes on a certified or experimental. I know being experimental allows you to copy STC's and products at will, and removes you from needing to use them, it also appears to remove any basic moral obligation as well, and I personaly think that sucks.
 
OK Mark...

I have received your personal attack and it has been duly noted...

Now, let's drop this subject before the blood pressure goes over red line...

Regards...
 
Glad you survived the personal attack, I'm still trying to get Cavy to send me a puppy.
 
A few years ago, I rebuilt my J-3 converted to a PA-11, I did several modifications to it. I had thought about this for years and done alot of research. Had talked to the FAA about the mods, etc, and appeared that everything that wasn't done under an STC would be field approved. Anyway, for some reason I called Mr Dodge to ask him about something....during the conversation he asked me what I was doing.....and I explained to him.......anyway, he preceeded to tell me that I was nothing but a thief, that he had STC's for some of that. I honestly didn't realize that, I had researched microfiche, looked thru all past issues of the cub club newletters too and explained that I hadn't seen anything about him holding the STC's . Told him that the FAA was going to field approve them..........(I don't remember what mods these were, becasue I made several) anyway, that even made him more mad, I apologized to him and told him I'd be more then happy to buy the STC;s from him...........which I did do. Made me mad to be called a thief though.....and I told him I didn't appreciate it.....but anyway......... he did have a point..........and I understood it, although I think he could have handled it better/nicer...........I paid him for them, and had I known ahead of time, I would have bought them. He was right........but I still think he could have handled it a little differently....but oh well.........none of us are perfect LOL. and I do respect the work he has done to help further aviaiton.... Grasshopper it's obvious, you understand this too......since you hold an STC...........I'm not taking sides...........just putting this out for general info...........wow.....didn't know I was a politician LOL.....
Brian
 
Looks like we all need a puppy or two. Mark is Moose up to it??? The way things are going here it looks like just any little old puppy might not be enough. :lol:

Mr. Dodge seems to be a little thin skined, probably for good reasons. I guess I had the impression that all you mountain men up there in the far north had skin so thick the grizzlies couldn't scratch through it.

When I bought my cub it was missing the lower pair of cables on the Altee Dodge safty cables. I called to see if he'd make me a pair. Right out of the box I had to convice him that they were his. I told him the center plate has in name and phone number on it, well that was not quite good enough. What does it say on the back of it .... I had not looked closely at the back. At the point I was about convinced that I'd done something wrong he asked where he should ship them. I gave my address and asked if I could give him a credit card number. He says, "no just send me a check when you get them". I figure he's probably a great guy just been copied too many times. :eek:
 
Wow! I ain't even going to talk on the subject!! But I can tell you all this much--Cavy sent me a puppy, by e-mail and it arrived with a broken tread! I cut and pasted it back together and then copied it to an FTP (I thougth that meant "(F)or (T)he (P)uppy, but my son straightened me out with the geek terminology FTP "file transfer protocol".

So! Where does that leave us (same as we were before) each with our own opinion?

I guess if you aren't willing to catch some flack 'don't post an opinion'
Sounds fair to me!

See ya,

Going flying, the sun is out!

Tim
 
long step

to save myself a phone call to start with does anyone know what atlee is getting for his long step kit?
 
One of the challenges of dealing with the Atlee shop is that he doesn't have a reasonable catalog of his various mods and STCs. I've scoured the STC list and built a database of the registered STC holders for every PA-18 and PA-12 mod the FAA knows about. Atlee's brochure doesn't mention a fraction of those ones in the database, and it does mention mods that aren't there.

I've talked with Atlee and his staff on the phone on several occasions, bought various parts and papers, and even got help tracking down parts that I thought came from there but didn't, so I'm as appreciative of their help as anyone. But it is frustrating to hear about Atlee complaining about our shade-tree solutions when he won't publish the info. Could someone who has his ear get him to send a complete list *with prices*? I'll build him an on-line catalog, if for nothing more than having a decent reference. In fact, I would love to see a list of all mods and STCs w/ prices and contacts... we started this awhile ago but I think it got lost in the shuffle.
 
Alumium angle 4' $11.00
2 clamps $6.00 est.
4130 tubing for spacers $2.00
AN bolts, nuts, washers. $3.00
Alodine prep Qt. $10.45
Epoxi primer/catalyst Qt. $67.80
Aerothane White paint Qt. $45.10
Wing walk 4' $14.10


Total $162.65! Why would anyone want to make a homemade step when you can buy one already complete for $125.00!
 
With all due respect MD by your reasoning Cuby shouldn't be building that airplane at all but buying a certified cub since he is ripping piper off by building a copy.
I used to buy Atlees parts from cubcrafters until I found out they were just marked up items Atlee made. But Cubcrafters advertised and Atlee never did so I had not even heard of Atlee until Cubcrafters came along.

I too have spent way too many hours copying something I've seen and trying to get it approved only because I never knew who built it or whether it was certified.
Some of the people selling Certified items, copied the idea from someone else first then took the time to certify them.
 
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