180hp Cowling
- Thread starter diggler
- Start date
supercub
MEMBER
Let me check my GPS, gee how'd we ever navigate w
I really don't know much about that conversion........but I do know that some things on the cowl have to be changed..........you might want to check with Pen Yan.........they also have an STC for 180 conversion on PA-18's...........and they can probably advise you on what mods have to be done on the cowling.
SuperCub MD
Registered User
Collins, Wisconsin
How do you convert a O320 to a O360? (different case, crank, cylinders, sump,-basically everything). With a O-320 at 10-1 compression, you will need side cowls made from cast iron to contain the heads when they blow off.
PA12driver
Registered User
Battle Ground, WA
Digger I am with you on the Ellison throttle body! Might check with Dan's aircraft in Anchorage? He should be able answer your questions. I flew this summer with a fellow with the CC STC and he showed me the cowl and from what I saw the CC fibreglass nose bowl is wider to make up for the slightly wider 0-360 and most don't fit for Sh#@t!
My next project will be Experimental with a hoped up 0320, Ellison, hand built equal length tuned exhaust, and a molded cowl out of glass that looks like a cub cowl, (not a citabria).
PS: I have never heard of a failure of the Ellison TB?? You don't need carb heat if you don't have a venturi!! I would love to make a weighted flower pot out of the Marvel S. junk!!
I be dreaming with you!
Tim
My next project will be Experimental with a hoped up 0320, Ellison, hand built equal length tuned exhaust, and a molded cowl out of glass that looks like a cub cowl, (not a citabria).
PS: I have never heard of a failure of the Ellison TB?? You don't need carb heat if you don't have a venturi!! I would love to make a weighted flower pot out of the Marvel S. junk!!
I be dreaming with you!
Tim
SuperCub MD
Registered User
Collins, Wisconsin
A PS to my above statement.
I have no experience with the Ellison TBI, but the O320 "H", as in H2AD ran 9-1 compression, you don't see many of them around anymore, and there is a good reason why.
I have no experience with the Ellison TBI, but the O320 "H", as in H2AD ran 9-1 compression, you don't see many of them around anymore, and there is a good reason why.
SuperCub MD
Registered User
Collins, Wisconsin
I haven't worked on a "H" for a while, and I know the valve train geometry was it's biggest flaw, but I don't believe high compression/heat helped it either. I guess I've built/maintained a few engines, and high compression always makes for high maintenance, and a lot less reliability. It only makes sense, your putting more load on the parts, so things are going to break more often. These engines were designed with a large safety margin, and doen't get me wrong, I'm glad there are guys out there who are willing to push the limits. I doen't fly alone however, and I feel a responseability to whoever is in the other seat to put the safest, most reliable engine under the cowl that I can. Be careful getting advise from these engine hop-up shops, they are in the business of selling you their product or service, think they are going to tell you anything bad? I was hired to salvage one of these hopped up, high compression, "doen't worry, it can take it" engines from one of these companies, (I won't mention which one). It grenaded with very little time on it, it was really impressive. The biggest recognizable piece was a small section of the case that managed to hold 2 cylinders together. I've never seen a Lycoming come apart like that, I didn't salvage much.
PS on cylinders,
I've built up engines with Milleniums, and the owners swear they have more power, no dyno tests or anything, this is just the feedback I get. I have had very good luck with them. I like the extra metal they put in the exhaust ports, right where the stock ones always crack.
PS on cylinders,
I've built up engines with Milleniums, and the owners swear they have more power, no dyno tests or anything, this is just the feedback I get. I have had very good luck with them. I like the extra metal they put in the exhaust ports, right where the stock ones always crack.
SuperCub MD
Registered User
Collins, Wisconsin
On the subject of 300+ HP PA18's, does anyone know of any turbo prop Cubs yet? You just know that someone will do it eventually, with Maules, Bird Dogs, 206's, 210's being done, the Super Cub can't be far behind. I'll take mine with a Allison and reversing prop. If your going to get nuts, go all the way.
PA12driver
Registered User
Battle Ground, WA
While on the subject of engines? I have an Neighbor, who is an IA and has fought for the last 3 months with ECI over cylinders for his 0360 that run way to hot! after replacing them twice with new ECI jugs he finally took pictures of the cooling fins between the valves in comparison to the Lycoming (more expensive ones). The casting was horrible and the area for air to circulate thru was dramatically diminished? Have any of you had similar problems? ECI says they have fixed there castings with the New TITAN cylds?
On the subject of High compression, I do know of several experimental 0320's and 0360's that are running higher compression pistons with success (not gone to TBO yet however)
Seems the biggest problem with the 0320 is fuel burn efficiency, and fuel flow through a poorly designed induction system.
Also the inefficiency of the exhaust systems used by factory installations.
Hence the advantage or (option of installing) fuel injection fuel systems, and or TBI
http://www.ellison-tbi.com/article/notaposa/notaposa.htm
Tim
On the subject of High compression, I do know of several experimental 0320's and 0360's that are running higher compression pistons with success (not gone to TBO yet however)
Seems the biggest problem with the 0320 is fuel burn efficiency, and fuel flow through a poorly designed induction system.
Also the inefficiency of the exhaust systems used by factory installations.
Hence the advantage or (option of installing) fuel injection fuel systems, and or TBI
http://www.ellison-tbi.com/article/notaposa/notaposa.htm
Tim
180 H.P cowling
I thought I would jump in here and stick up for Charly Center's Crosswinds STOL 180 H.P. cowling. First off the Crosswinds cowling shares no similarities in construction or design to that of a Citabria cowling. The only thing that could even be considered to resemble the Citabria cowling is the contoured top. The Crosswinds cowling is the most tested and functional cowling for 180 H.P. Cubs ever built. There are no airbox issues becuase the cowl uses the Cesnna 180 air intake. The cowl is a split design and can be removed from the aircraft without removing the prop or spinner in about 10 minutes. The access doors allow superior access to the engine. The cowling is rugged and proven with the 0-360, no rubbing and cracking from getting shook around. The cowling has better aerodynamics, has been engineeried and dive tested for your safety. I should also mention it can be used with Charly's modified Cherokee exhaust system. This is the one exhaust Piper got right from the factory. The biggest advantage to the Crosswinds cowling is visiability. One look over the nose from the pilots seat and you will never settle for anything else. I must see things differently, either that are I see beauty in the design, function and aerodynamics. For me the Crosswinds cowling is gorgeous. Whew, I feel like I really unloaded. Sorry!
I thought I would jump in here and stick up for Charly Center's Crosswinds STOL 180 H.P. cowling. First off the Crosswinds cowling shares no similarities in construction or design to that of a Citabria cowling. The only thing that could even be considered to resemble the Citabria cowling is the contoured top. The Crosswinds cowling is the most tested and functional cowling for 180 H.P. Cubs ever built. There are no airbox issues becuase the cowl uses the Cesnna 180 air intake. The cowl is a split design and can be removed from the aircraft without removing the prop or spinner in about 10 minutes. The access doors allow superior access to the engine. The cowling is rugged and proven with the 0-360, no rubbing and cracking from getting shook around. The cowling has better aerodynamics, has been engineeried and dive tested for your safety. I should also mention it can be used with Charly's modified Cherokee exhaust system. This is the one exhaust Piper got right from the factory. The biggest advantage to the Crosswinds cowling is visiability. One look over the nose from the pilots seat and you will never settle for anything else. I must see things differently, either that are I see beauty in the design, function and aerodynamics. For me the Crosswinds cowling is gorgeous. Whew, I feel like I really unloaded. Sorry!
SuperCub MD
Registered User
Collins, Wisconsin
If you just can't get by with 160 hp, why not bolt in a O340? They are a little rare, but they are around if you look. (The O340 is basically a long stroke O320, 170 honest hp at 8.5:1) I would think that a long stroke would have more torque, and a flater torque curve (which is more important than hp rating, and what you really want), than a basterdized high comp O320.
SuperCub MD
Registered User
Collins, Wisconsin
True, high altitude is different, I forget that everyone is not blessed with thick, cool air. Down here, we just don't need any more. I wish they would have made more O340's, it's been a while since I flew one, but I remember it being a good engine.
180 H.P. Cowling
How did this subject go from 180 H.P. Cowlings to 300 H.P. engines? Before I reply to diggler and the cost of Charly's cowling. I wanted to speak to my previous post on the looks of Charly's cowling. There are many of us that like the looks of his cowling. PA12driver has said on more than one occasion that Crosswinds cowling was a Citabria cowling and it was "But Ugly" I just disagree.
As for the cost of the Crosswinds cowling that just depends if you want to be certified in the normal catogory and would like a tested and proven design. The kit is expensive as a complete 180 H.P. conversion. That's because it comes complete with a new exhaust system, new airbox, Cessna 180 airfilter and mounting bracket, heat exhanger, carb heat controls, air ducting hoses, rear mounted oil cooler, oil lines, complete baffling, Dynofocal swing out engine mount, rubbers, and all required hardware. The cowling comes assembled, primed ready to install. The price less the engine is $15,000. As for the 160 H.P. STC, what was wrong with the 82-44 the stc comes with? It is the one Roger Boer recomends after 30 years testing. As far as the light weight oil cooler mounted on the rear baffle, your the first I've ever heard of that didn't like it. It sounds like you are more interested in experimental. If this is the case and depending on your personality Charly might sell just the cowling, of course it would not be pma'd and would not include any accessories. Other options are Cubcrafters and Penn Yan. But if you are really interested in saving money just whip out the hack saw, tin snips and and a hand full of rivets.
How did this subject go from 180 H.P. Cowlings to 300 H.P. engines? Before I reply to diggler and the cost of Charly's cowling. I wanted to speak to my previous post on the looks of Charly's cowling. There are many of us that like the looks of his cowling. PA12driver has said on more than one occasion that Crosswinds cowling was a Citabria cowling and it was "But Ugly" I just disagree.
As for the cost of the Crosswinds cowling that just depends if you want to be certified in the normal catogory and would like a tested and proven design. The kit is expensive as a complete 180 H.P. conversion. That's because it comes complete with a new exhaust system, new airbox, Cessna 180 airfilter and mounting bracket, heat exhanger, carb heat controls, air ducting hoses, rear mounted oil cooler, oil lines, complete baffling, Dynofocal swing out engine mount, rubbers, and all required hardware. The cowling comes assembled, primed ready to install. The price less the engine is $15,000. As for the 160 H.P. STC, what was wrong with the 82-44 the stc comes with? It is the one Roger Boer recomends after 30 years testing. As far as the light weight oil cooler mounted on the rear baffle, your the first I've ever heard of that didn't like it. It sounds like you are more interested in experimental. If this is the case and depending on your personality Charly might sell just the cowling, of course it would not be pma'd and would not include any accessories. Other options are Cubcrafters and Penn Yan. But if you are really interested in saving money just whip out the hack saw, tin snips and and a hand full of rivets.
Crash
GONE WEST
Nikiski Alaska
Pitch
It's no big deal getting a pitch change for Charlie's 160hp conversion. On the PA-12/14 conversion he calls for a 82/46 prop in the STC. Who the heck runs a 46 pitch on a 160? Went with a 44 pitch on mine and the FAA inspecter signed it off without comment.
Also, my 160 with Millinium cylinders really seems to have the juice when compared with my other 160 that has Lycoming cylinders. I thought is was just because it was fresh (and it might be), but the Lycoming one has 76-78 over 80 compression on all cylinders. Go figure? Crash
It's no big deal getting a pitch change for Charlie's 160hp conversion. On the PA-12/14 conversion he calls for a 82/46 prop in the STC. Who the heck runs a 46 pitch on a 160? Went with a 44 pitch on mine and the FAA inspecter signed it off without comment.
Also, my 160 with Millinium cylinders really seems to have the juice when compared with my other 160 that has Lycoming cylinders. I thought is was just because it was fresh (and it might be), but the Lycoming one has 76-78 over 80 compression on all cylinders. Go figure? Crash
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
180 hp Cowling
With some of this discussion on increasing compression ratio on engines isn't fuel quality a consideration for you guys that have to buy it way out in the boonies sometimes? Im leaving my O-320 stock in this area just in case I have to settle for poor quality fuel sometime,of course Im not yet flying in conditions that warrant that little extra power. The ellison is a great piece for you guys that are in the exp. catagory. The marvel will always be bad foundry work as far as Im concerned.
With some of this discussion on increasing compression ratio on engines isn't fuel quality a consideration for you guys that have to buy it way out in the boonies sometimes? Im leaving my O-320 stock in this area just in case I have to settle for poor quality fuel sometime,of course Im not yet flying in conditions that warrant that little extra power. The ellison is a great piece for you guys that are in the exp. catagory. The marvel will always be bad foundry work as far as Im concerned.
Nathan Richmond
Registered User
Yakima, WA
Cub Crafters 180 Conversion
Hey guys, I guess its time to make a Cub Crafters splash on supercub.org . . . The site looks great!
I'm not sure why diggler has such strong negative feelings toward Cub Crafters, but I'd love to speak with him in person about it before it poisons anyones opinion of Cub Crafters.
We have been working on our 180 conversion for many years now and we strive to build the 180HP Cub better each time we put one together. I know we have not been around as long as some of you, but we like to think that our combined experience in the last 25 years of specializing in only the Super Cub has gotten us somewhere!
Our 180 HP conversion also features a fiberglass split cowl, although we have strived to stay more true to the round Super Cub lines than other conversions. Everything it takes to convert to a 180HP engine comes in our conversion kit for less than $7000. New cowl, exhaust mod (modified to use a slip joint - no cracking), baffle mods, lightweight rear mounted oil cooler, new airbox, etc. You also some pretty great installation instructions as well. We stock new engines from Lycoming, new props from Sensenich and McCauley, and we give a pretty fair trade-in for your O-320.
We prefer the standard conical engine mount - although our STC allows the use of either the dynafocal or conical mount engines. You can see more details at http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/products/180Mod.asp
Enough for now . . . Please do not hesitate to call me or Earl if you have any questions. We love Super Cubs, and our survival as a company DEPENDS on good dialog between ourselves and our customers.
If we have offended or wronged anyone in any way, CALL US! We'll make it right.
Nathan
Hey guys, I guess its time to make a Cub Crafters splash on supercub.org . . . The site looks great!
I'm not sure why diggler has such strong negative feelings toward Cub Crafters, but I'd love to speak with him in person about it before it poisons anyones opinion of Cub Crafters.
We have been working on our 180 conversion for many years now and we strive to build the 180HP Cub better each time we put one together. I know we have not been around as long as some of you, but we like to think that our combined experience in the last 25 years of specializing in only the Super Cub has gotten us somewhere!
Our 180 HP conversion also features a fiberglass split cowl, although we have strived to stay more true to the round Super Cub lines than other conversions. Everything it takes to convert to a 180HP engine comes in our conversion kit for less than $7000. New cowl, exhaust mod (modified to use a slip joint - no cracking), baffle mods, lightweight rear mounted oil cooler, new airbox, etc. You also some pretty great installation instructions as well. We stock new engines from Lycoming, new props from Sensenich and McCauley, and we give a pretty fair trade-in for your O-320.
We prefer the standard conical engine mount - although our STC allows the use of either the dynafocal or conical mount engines. You can see more details at http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/products/180Mod.asp
Enough for now . . . Please do not hesitate to call me or Earl if you have any questions. We love Super Cubs, and our survival as a company DEPENDS on good dialog between ourselves and our customers.
If we have offended or wronged anyone in any way, CALL US! We'll make it right.
Nathan
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Nathan,
Welcome! Since so many of us use your products, we appreciate your presence and any knowledge you can share!
It is amazing sometimes how seemingly little things make the biggest difference in people's impressions of a company. My experience with your company has all been positive.
In an effort to develop a single base of knowledge, any archival SCPA info you could share would be put to good use here.
Thanks.
sj
Welcome! Since so many of us use your products, we appreciate your presence and any knowledge you can share!
It is amazing sometimes how seemingly little things make the biggest difference in people's impressions of a company. My experience with your company has all been positive.
In an effort to develop a single base of knowledge, any archival SCPA info you could share would be put to good use here.
Thanks.
sj
Nathan Richmond
Registered User
Yakima, WA
Cub Crafters
Diggler,
The newsletter is a painful subject . . . it was a labor of love that simply became too overwhelming. We offer full refunds to all who ask . . . we are talking to both Steve and Northern Pilot as far as some sort of restitution for the rest.
As far as editorial control of our Chat page . . . our Cub Crafters chat page is used to promote sales of our products. It is a commercial website and does not pretend to be anything else. Free-speach does not apply. Some things simply do not belong in a public discussion. If a post paints me or my company in a bad light and I am simply not ready to deal with it, I am certianly not going to pay for the site that hosts the message. I will promise you however that no post dealing with airworthyness or ideas for mods is deleted. The usual victems are those attacking us with reguard to the newsletter, or those that try to sell parts. We are trying to sell parts and used parts, we are not going to advertise our web site only to sell things for other people.
Many apologies if your feelings were hurt. If we don't think a post is appropriate it gets axed. If it was a low stress day, chances are you'll get a nice and thoughful email noting why it was deleted, but sometimes, there is just not enough patience left and it just dissapears. "Appropriate" has pretty broad meaning . . . but we are not proud of the fact that we have not sent out the newsletter, and would prefer to avoid a mass riot of super cub suicide pilots targeting our headquarters! lol. Please tell me who you are and we'll get you (and anyone else) a refund or a hat, or a free shipping on a parts order. Something to make it right. Or, you can keep your fingers crossed that we are going to get another issue out. That is still my hope, but every week it looks less and less likely.
We exist to support Super Cubs, and their pilots. Please do not hesitate to tell us how to better serve you!
I too am thankfull for Steve's website . . . This site is excellent.
I hope we can still be friends!
Nate
Diggler,
The newsletter is a painful subject . . . it was a labor of love that simply became too overwhelming. We offer full refunds to all who ask . . . we are talking to both Steve and Northern Pilot as far as some sort of restitution for the rest.
As far as editorial control of our Chat page . . . our Cub Crafters chat page is used to promote sales of our products. It is a commercial website and does not pretend to be anything else. Free-speach does not apply. Some things simply do not belong in a public discussion. If a post paints me or my company in a bad light and I am simply not ready to deal with it, I am certianly not going to pay for the site that hosts the message. I will promise you however that no post dealing with airworthyness or ideas for mods is deleted. The usual victems are those attacking us with reguard to the newsletter, or those that try to sell parts. We are trying to sell parts and used parts, we are not going to advertise our web site only to sell things for other people.
Many apologies if your feelings were hurt. If we don't think a post is appropriate it gets axed. If it was a low stress day, chances are you'll get a nice and thoughful email noting why it was deleted, but sometimes, there is just not enough patience left and it just dissapears. "Appropriate" has pretty broad meaning . . . but we are not proud of the fact that we have not sent out the newsletter, and would prefer to avoid a mass riot of super cub suicide pilots targeting our headquarters! lol. Please tell me who you are and we'll get you (and anyone else) a refund or a hat, or a free shipping on a parts order. Something to make it right. Or, you can keep your fingers crossed that we are going to get another issue out. That is still my hope, but every week it looks less and less likely.
We exist to support Super Cubs, and their pilots. Please do not hesitate to tell us how to better serve you!
I too am thankfull for Steve's website . . . This site is excellent.
I hope we can still be friends!
Nate
diggler said:Hi Nathon, glad your reading. I should thank you. Because of CC neglect of the newsletter and milking around 500 people for 25 bucks for a newsletter that never showed up and deleting post on your website. Steve started this one.
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
180 hp. Cowling
Yup...Nathan, I was one of the guys who sent money and I got one issue and that was it. I remember seeing your cub crafters display at Oshkosh in '92 and I was very impressed with CC. Then they nick me for 25 bucks and I just decide to not think of CC first when in need of cub parts. Just my opinion of course.
Yup...Nathan, I was one of the guys who sent money and I got one issue and that was it. I remember seeing your cub crafters display at Oshkosh in '92 and I was very impressed with CC. Then they nick me for 25 bucks and I just decide to not think of CC first when in need of cub parts. Just my opinion of course.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
I think there is a great opportunity for CC to make amends here, and I think we can all come out ahead on our $25 (yes, I paid too). Here are my thoughts:
Cub Crafters is probably the most recognizable rebuilder of Super Cubs around, and we know from reading the pilot mags that they are working to try to keep the airplane alive by building new ones. I think this is great. We all already know that there is still lots of room for other rebuilders so it is not like they are putting anybody out of business, and we know that the produce a premium product, that some of us cannot afford (I just wish I could). These guys know a lot of stuff that is valuable to us.
I prefer to find a way that we can all live happily ever after. Wouldn't it be nice to order a Cub Crafters STC without grumbling? I believe that if they were able to make an information contribution and provide a mailing list or other assistance to help build supercub.org (or maybe the SPCA) into a real assocation, they could be forgiven of their sins. Also, since the Richmond's wrote most of the articles for the SCPA, maybe once in a while they would contribute a tasty tidbit for woe and intrigue, or whatever that becomes.
To those that spent the $25 or $50 for two years I would say feel free to not donate to Supercub.Org for a period of time that you feel compensates you for that loss - maybe 10 years? You have donated already, right?
Anyway, lets see what we can come up with before we all pass judgement. I think Nathan and the crew can be an imporant resource for this website - and all of us. I believe he has been very up front in his posts so far, so I plan to give them a chance. We have the luxury of "waiting and seeing", let's take advantage of it.
sj
Cub Crafters is probably the most recognizable rebuilder of Super Cubs around, and we know from reading the pilot mags that they are working to try to keep the airplane alive by building new ones. I think this is great. We all already know that there is still lots of room for other rebuilders so it is not like they are putting anybody out of business, and we know that the produce a premium product, that some of us cannot afford (I just wish I could). These guys know a lot of stuff that is valuable to us.
I prefer to find a way that we can all live happily ever after. Wouldn't it be nice to order a Cub Crafters STC without grumbling? I believe that if they were able to make an information contribution and provide a mailing list or other assistance to help build supercub.org (or maybe the SPCA) into a real assocation, they could be forgiven of their sins. Also, since the Richmond's wrote most of the articles for the SCPA, maybe once in a while they would contribute a tasty tidbit for woe and intrigue, or whatever that becomes.
To those that spent the $25 or $50 for two years I would say feel free to not donate to Supercub.Org for a period of time that you feel compensates you for that loss - maybe 10 years?
You have donated already, right?Anyway, lets see what we can come up with before we all pass judgement. I think Nathan and the crew can be an imporant resource for this website - and all of us. I believe he has been very up front in his posts so far, so I plan to give them a chance. We have the luxury of "waiting and seeing", let's take advantage of it.
sj
Cub junkie
Registered User
My Moms basement
180 hp. cowling
I agree with SJ and the CC web site is on my favorites site and I have learned many things from their site. I also feel like it is their right to delete any post that is casting a negative light on their business. They are the owners of the site and they are the ones who pay for it. I would even buy back issues if they came available.
I agree with SJ and the CC web site is on my favorites site and I have learned many things from their site. I also feel like it is their right to delete any post that is casting a negative light on their business. They are the owners of the site and they are the ones who pay for it. I would even buy back issues if they came available.
supercub
MEMBER
Let me check my GPS, gee how'd we ever navigate w
Well............here's my 2 cents again......maybe it's down to just a cent now. I also spent money for the newsletter..and only received a couple of them (best I can remember at least)...........I was somewhat disappointed in the fact that they had ceased the newsletter.....however..........I've had a few calls to Cub Crafters over the years......and I have to say.....they have always been very helpful.......the amount of time they've spent on the phone over the years......answering tech questions.........well lets just say........I'll never complain about loosing part of my subscription money. I know that doesn't right the wrong for others that didn't recieve the newsletter, but it ceratinly appears that they are making efforts to right the wrong. As far as the message board, well they pay for it...........and I don't blame them for editing unwanted messages.....to be honest........I'd be doing the same thing. As a once famous person said.........."Can't we all just get along" (Rodney King LOL) But seriously........we all love flying........all love planes.......and all love Super Cubs.........oh ya........and Super Cruisers too (didn't want to get into trouble)........so as far as I'm concerned...........Cub Crafters along with this website will continue to be on my "Favorites" list. "Brian"
PA12driver
Registered User
Battle Ground, WA
I have known Stan, Jim and Nathan for better than 10 years. I for one appreciate them all for their contribution to the GA industry! I have at times been turned off by what appeared to be an pompus attitude. Then I realized after reading several posts (ON THIS SITE) that reflected the same thing about some of US that were posting opinion that appeared offensive to some?
I would suggest that we all (ME too) bridal our tongues somewhat when addressing a diverse audience as if could serve to be counter productive to our "mutual" best interest!
GA needs to be revitalized, Americans, and all free people needd only to "AGREE TO DISAGREE" and protect our freedom with positive action not just tongue lashing!
I have never been personally mistreated by anyone at Cub Crafters, in fact Jim has gone out of his way to be helpful, and likewise I have known him and his staff to just that for countless others.
As for Deleting posts, editing content. Have at it Jim and Nathan, it is YOUR SITE!. Anyone that has built a site/ business, administered it, and worked the hours in the shop that it takes to build "Supercubs for Whinny" customers, surely feels some of their pain.
SJ: you are right on "together" we can benifit each other by sharing our knowledge base and building a united "customer base".
Tim
Welcome to Our Site! , Jim, Nathan, Stan and all the crew at CC
PS: Stan, why don't you buy a couple raffle tickets! It would be a good investiment! (sorry the 196 is already won by yours truly)!
I would suggest that we all (ME too) bridal our tongues somewhat when addressing a diverse audience as if could serve to be counter productive to our "mutual" best interest!
GA needs to be revitalized, Americans, and all free people needd only to "AGREE TO DISAGREE" and protect our freedom with positive action not just tongue lashing!
I have never been personally mistreated by anyone at Cub Crafters, in fact Jim has gone out of his way to be helpful, and likewise I have known him and his staff to just that for countless others.
As for Deleting posts, editing content. Have at it Jim and Nathan, it is YOUR SITE!. Anyone that has built a site/ business, administered it, and worked the hours in the shop that it takes to build "Supercubs for Whinny" customers, surely feels some of their pain.
SJ: you are right on "together" we can benifit each other by sharing our knowledge base and building a united "customer base".
Tim
Welcome to Our Site! , Jim, Nathan, Stan and all the crew at CC
PS: Stan, why don't you buy a couple raffle tickets! It would be a good investiment! (sorry the 196 is already won by yours truly)!
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