Left hand sliding window

Most of the 150hp's I have seen have a nifty sliding window on the left hand side where I have a chunk of plastic that acts like it wants to fly into the cockpit (pa18-105 special).

The questions for the experts out there are:

1. Can I (legally) put the sliding window on my plane?

2. Can it be done without recovering the plane, or should it be done at that time?

3. Is it a standard part or a fancypants STC part?

THANKS! I would like to have this mod!

sj

:multi:

Sliding window

The sliding window was standard on most 150hp Cubs from the factory. If you have the same window channels, you can install the fuzzy window slider tracks and install one. The tracks are expensive if you get them from Univair. You can buy a 7' stick from stoddards for around 30 bucks. While you're at it, order their $2.50 window stiffeners (4 ea.), Univair wants $80.00 each for the originals. I will tell you the hot set up for making them better then the originals. The sliding window is a must have on a hot day. How did you survive so far? Crash

Ummmm how do I know if I have the right tracks?

I'm not very smart you know, I only know computers...

sj

Another option would be a fold up or fold down window on the left side using 1/2 " square tubing for frame. Field approval is pretty easy.

Your Cub should have had a sliding window originally. Maybe someone put in a single window for some weird reason? Check for the window tracks, black, fabric covered, and fuzzy, about a 1/4 " opening to allow both small windows to slid past each other (think windows in a old car). The tracks screw to the airframe structure. Look close at a 18 with the sliding window, and compare to yours to see what you are missing.

I will go look now, but I think I HAVE those fuzzy tracks!

sj

Here are some GIANT pictures of my window. Does it look like I have the right poop? I may win the "most obnoxious post of the year" award!




Thanks!

sj

looks to be the right structure. You'll just have to remove the window and replace it with original style parts. A look at another is the easiest, but maybe someone can put enough good pics on for you to understand.basically there are two sliding windows that are just over half long but they are both different shape and not square. There is a trick to puting the whole assembly in. But i doubt I am articulate enough to expain it here. Get someone to show you how the next time you are at a fly in.

Crash, What is the hot set up for making the sliding windows better? I have made the stiffeners and its a pain. I'm calling Stoddards today.

Steve

I "smallened" my pictures so they would not be so obnoxious. Thanks for the help!

sj

Steve.........check out your local glass company. I found a set of tracks for mine pretty cheap......or I can send you some.

Wow SJ! someone sure went to a lot of trouble to make you sweat and loose weight! I have a fold up left windowin my PA12 and I will post photos and frame details, (I will have to remember how to do that FTP,Upload cool thing). I am curious about the stiffners too? I used to just fight the originals till they got so scratched I had to replace them! Where else but the SC forum could an old dog learn new tricks!

Thanks,


Tim :

PS: how do you add the (crazy "emotions" to the post. I have it "turned on"??

While you are typing your post, just click one of the Emoticon icons :fadein: and it will stick in some funny looking text. When you "view" the message, the funny text will be replaced by the emoticon.

sj

Tim.........I'd like to see your fold up window.......always did hate the sliders. They need rollers and a good latch system.

SJ! No $$%%^& that is all there is to it!! now I really feel smurt!

Tim : :x

Well, after all that talking you were doing about flying upside down in frezzing temps, landing on the roof of cabins, stopping on a dime with 9 cents change, and all the other incredible pilot skills you possess, I was a little concerned....

I actually like the old sliders. Trouble with the fold up is that it is either all, or nothing. The slider can be opened just a little or a lot, front or rear. The tracks can be had at most auto, marine, window shops. The stiffeners can be made from scrap 2024 in less than 1/2 an hour, even without a brake, and glued to the windows. Simple inside latches can be made from flat 2024 or SS. The tracks can be bent or straightened to provide the proper friction to hold the windows where you want them. The soft half of self adhesive velcro makes a nice, simple seal for between the sliders when applied to the edge of the windows. The windows need to be looked at as consumables, just like fabric. When they crack, scratch, fog, to the point where you cannot tolerate them anymore, replace them.

MD- I agee on the sliders: fact that they come out easy is a safety feature as well! (I can attest to that as that is how I and my passenger got out of my wreck in Idaho. (as a point of note! I do not suggest that any side window be made out of lexan for that reason)

In the could country, or wet country the sliding side window is not as important. the one on my 12 was made (by the former owner) and he flew on floats and skiis and wanted the better seal. ( I actually saw a PA18 that had all the windows set in a rubber channel (boat style) perfect seal and water tight!

Also handles can be attached by gluing a block of Plexi to the inside!

PS: I never seam to open my lift up window probably for the reason you mentioned.

Tim

Good points guys.......especially for an emergency exit........
OK.........I'll keep my sliders.

You can have the best of both worlds. Charly Center built me a side window for my old PA-12 that swung up like a seaplane door. When the window was down you had a double sliding window. The double sliding window allows both the person in the back and person in front to slide open the window at the same time. It worked great. It could be left up in flight for taking pictures. It also made a good emergency exit. There is not and STC for the mod, Charly had it field approved.

If you can take some pictures or include the 337 drawings?
I am doing the same for the lift up one piece one that I have. It would be fairly simple to add channels to mine, however it all adds weight!

Tim

On the fold up window, instead of just putting a latch on the wing, put an adjustable hinge on it so you can open it an inch, two inches etc.

Ok, I got the windows they are great, but apparently there are some "stiffeners" that go on each end of the window so it does not bow in like a banshee. Anybody know the part number, or what to call these things, or recommended ways of dealing with the lack of stiffness?

THANKS!

sj

Window stiffners.

The slider windows are the best option for cooling the interior of the plane. Slide the front one back to cool your front side or slide the back one forward to cool your back side.

Steve it looks like you have the right window structure to install the fuzzy window channels. Univair has them but they charge an arm and a leg for them. Stoddards has the same channel in a 7' stick for about 36 bucks the last time I purchased some. You will need enough to do a top, bottom front and rear channel.

The plexi glass for the side windows on a PA-18 are .100 thick. Lexan sucks, scratches easily and foggs when exposed to gas. If you can find it, Lucite SR II (scratch resistant 2) is the best stuff going.

Cut each window 1/16" shorter then the inside channel opening and 5/8" longer then 1/2 the distance of the opening, measured at the top window channel. Flex windows to install them in the channels, make sure they slide back and forth smoothly. Dress all the edges with sand paper to remove any sharp edges.

Univair makes original fuzzy window stiffners but they cost $80.00 each and you need four. Stoddards has aluminum U shaped channelsl for $2.50 each. I have seen 10' sticks of it at Home Depot in the flooring section for under 10 bucks. It is used to edge hard board used on some kitchen walls. It is "U" shaped with 1/2" sides, and 1/8" channel. Cut the front and rear channel 1/8" shorter then the plexi windows. The overlap channels (where the two windows overlap) are cut 1/8" (gives you 1/16" clearence top and bottom) shorter then the opening, measured from the slider channels. Drill five (one centered) evenly spaced holes with a 3/32" drill through the window channels for rivets. Make a couple of pull handels out of .032 2024 aluminum. Make them 2 1/2" tall x 1 3/8" deep, bend at 5/8" (foot), 90 degrees. Round the corners on the 3/4" part of the pull. Center the pull on the center rivet hole and drill through it using the hole as a guide. Now install the channels on their appropiate windows, drill through the plexi using the holes as a guide using a 3/32" plastic bit or a reground (60 degree point) steel bit. Use slow speed when drilling plexi. Remove the channels and redrill the plexi holes with an 1/8" plastic bit to allow for rivet expansion (broke 3 windows before I figured this one out). Use a 100 degree counter sink bit and counter sink the window channel holes on one side of the channels for counter sink rivets. Pay attention to the window overlaps. You want the counter sink rivets to slide past one another. Use 3/32" rivets 5/16" long. Back them up on a vice and tap the rivet ends (not heads) down with a ball pein hammer. Don't forget to install you pull handle (slip foot between the channel and plexi) with the center rivet.

Get some black, sticky back felt at Wal Mart and cut two 1/2" strips. Apply this to the channels that pass by each other at the overlap so the plexi dosn't get scracthed by the rivets and stiffner channels. Looks and works better then Piper's when you're done. Crash

Thanks, Crash! I appreciate all the excellent info!

Off to Home depot, walmart, and rivet depot I go....

sj

Note on installing/removing sliders. Bending them in the middle to get them in and out invites disaster, and is not a option if the stiffeners are already installed. When installing, screw in the front, rear, and bottom channels. Set the windows (stiffeners installed) in the middle of the bottom channel, slid together, tops tipped into the cabin. Set the top channel on the windows, and tip the assembly into the frame, screw the top channel to the frame at each end, and your done. Slid the windows together, unscrew the top frame, and tip in to remove. The fuselage frame for the top channel was left open on the inside to allow installing them this way.

If you make your own stiffener channels, (.032 aluminum works good), you can make them wider (about a inch). This makes enough glueing surface that riveting them on is not nessesary. Anywhere you drill, pound rivets through glass creates stress points that can eventually crack. You can also leave one end of the U channel long, and bend it back at 90 degrees to make a simple and effective handle. If you install the rear window in the inside, you can put a handle/lip on each end, makes it easier to operate the rear window from the front seat.

On glass type, Lexan and Plexiglass are names used be many manufacurers. Typically, Lexans are softer, do not break, but scratch easier. Plexi's are harder, some break REALLY easy, and are more resisant to scratching. Do not ever use the cheap hardware store Plexi's, way to brittle. I too, have soaked Lexan in fuel for days, exposed it to fumes, ect., I could find nothing to make it cloud or distort, maybe some cheaper grades will. Use a high grade of Plexi, or Lexan, consult your local glass shop, tell them your application involves fuel, scratching, temp extreams, and lots of vibration and sun exposure, use what they recomend in the brands they carry. And bug spray eats everything plastic or acrilic, (read the back of the can) keep it away from windows of any type.

Also beware buying precut window sets from suppliers (I'll mention no names) that seem rediculously cheap, they are made of cheap material, and not worth putting in.

Mark,

The price was sure right on the ones I bought...

Thanks for the info!

sj

Thanks MD for the descriptive post on window installs (That is what this forum is about)

Perhaps you could do the same as to installing Windshield (cutting to fit/sealing etc?

Also installation of Skylights, drilling plexiglass/size of hole for screw clearance, weatherstripping, etc?

You do a great job with the wording (must have paid attention in school)

Unfortunately I am of the percentage that made the other 98% possible

Thanks,

Tim

left hand sliding window

crash; im just getting ready to work on my slider and i was wondering if theres anyway you could post a picture on how you described how to do this in one of your earlier posts? a picture is worth a thousand words.

SJ said:

Mark,

The price was sure right on the ones I bought...

Thanks for the info!

sj

Click to expand...

Steve,

Dodd you ever have luck finding that u channel at home depot? If so so you remember what was normally for, or where you found it?

Brandon