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pa-14 NOT a supercub

pa14builder

Registered User
Ellensburg, WA
Hi,

I just purchased a partially completed Wag-Aero kit for a Piper Family Cruiser. I would like to finish this out a "Super-Cub-like" as is feasible. I have done searches on the web and can't find much info on this aircraft. I know Piper didn't make very many. Does anyone have any leads on information on this plane?

Thanks

Russ Elliott
 
2+2

Tim has a couple of nice pictures of his 2+2 on the photos pages and has been gracious in answering my questions, you might try PM or e-mailing him with yours.
 
PA-14

I have a PA-14 I just rebuilt and can give you some advice if you want to send me a private massage. The PA-14 is a heck of an airplane, I really like mine. Crash
 
Crash, tell us about your PA-14, what do you have for power, and how fast and slow will it go? Can you get in and out of 500ft? My 2+2 is basicly a PA-14, but I have spoilers and not flaps. I can get in short but I think I should have flaps to get off a little better.

Tim
2+2
 
PA-14

My PA-14 has a 0 timed O-320 / 160hp in it. It is a strong running 160 and will turn a 82/44 at 2450 with the tail tied down, as soon as it breaks ground it goes to red line. Take off is about the same as my PA-18 160. It climbs out better at 75 mph, 1100 fpm, so steep it's scarey. It slow flys down to 37 mph. It's a lot quiter then the PA-18. It's roll rate is much faster then the 18 for some reason. The stick movement is much less to get the plane to respond. It cruises at 100 mph with 29" Ak. Bushwheels and 105 mph on Bauman BF-2100 floats. It gets off the water with two people and half tanks (30 gallons) at around 12 seconds. I just timed a PA-18 on Edo 2000's with just the pilot at 16 seconds in the same conditions (calm, glassy water and 78 degrees temp.) Anyway I really like the plane and Bauman's are the only way to go for Cub floats. If life were longer I'd build up a second one. I will try to post some pictures. Crash
 
Re: PA-14

I am rebuilding a PA14. So far, I have made the following mods, PA18 Gear, PA 18 Tail Feathers, Weld On float Fittings, Extended Baggage, and Skylight. I have a 150 HP A2A engine with approximately 800Hrs on it, and I'm wondering if I should upgrade to the 160HP. The engine has been sitting around for about 12 years, but it was mothballed, and it is turned over from time to time. I also did not put in the exterior baggage door, as my thoughts were it was something that would leak. I have a short engine mount, and have made new cowlings. What is your opinion on the engine and the exterior baggage door, and what do you recommend for the starter and alternator? Any other mods I should upgrade now, based on your recent experience? How did you decide on the 44" pitch Borer prop? Do you have 3" or 6" extended gear, what size axels and brake system? What fuel tank and system did you use. Mine are shot and require replacing. Thanks in advance!


Crash said:
My PA-14 has a 0 timed O-320 / 160hp in it. It is a strong running 160 and will turn a 82/44 at 2450 with the tail tied down, as soon as it breaks ground it goes to red line. Take off is about the same as my PA-18 160. It climbs out better at 75 mph, 1100 fpm, so steep it's scarey. It slow flys down to 37 mph. It's a lot quiter then the PA-18. It's roll rate is much faster then the 18 for some reason. The stick movement is much less to get the plane to respond. It cruises at 100 mph with 29" Ak. Bushwheels and 105 mph on Bauman BF-2100 floats. It gets off the water with two people and half tanks (30 gallons) at around 12 seconds. I just timed a PA-18 on Edo 2000's with just the pilot at 16 seconds in the same conditions (calm, glassy water and 78 degrees temp.) Anyway I really like the plane and Bauman's are the only way to go for Cub floats. If life were longer I'd build up a second one. I will try to post some pictures. Crash
 
Re: PA-14

PA-14 Driver reply: I went with an upper and lower baggage with an exterior door on the upper baggage. I put in a small trap door in the upper baggage floor so I can reach my arm down into the lower baggage area and pull stuff back or push stuff forward. On a rebuild I always like to start with a zero timed engine. Your life depends on it so much, it's just not worth the chance. On rebuild you can upgrade to a 160 hp for the $300.00 STC fee, if it's a wide deck O-320. I went with a B&C rear vacume pad mount alternator and LR-3 regulator. I would use a B&C 40 amp front mount if I were to do it again. Just too hard to work around the rear mount alternator. The fuel tanks I used are Atlee Dodge 30.5 gallon tanks. The only other legal option are Wag Aero's 18 gallon tanks. My cabin is 230 miles from my house so I need the extra fuel, it's your call if you need that much fuel capacity. Most of the time I fill them 1/2 full but when I go out to the cabin it's nice to make a round trip without re fueling. I also copied the Cub Crafters "headerless" fuel system. The starter is a Skytec light weight model. The gear is heavy duty PA-18 standard length with 6" Cleveland wheels and brakes. On 29" tires it sits up pretty good. I would go with Airframes Inc 1 1/4' axle, 3" extended gear legs, but my project came with the ones I am using. I might change over this winter for use on skis. The 44 pitch prop was from experience with 160's. A fresh 160 will pull a 44 just fine and give you better cruise and fuel economy. So far it sounds like the mods you are doing are right in line with what I did. Keep thinking "light weight" as you are building.

Crash

[
 
Crash, you are making me homesick again! I am planning to come up next July with my son to show him (now 19) what kind of fun I had when he was to young to remember! What is the chance of you getting away in July to do some flying, I am planning to spend some time on the Ak Peninsula, and where ever else the weather is good. As of now I have three other cubs joining me from down here in WA state.

Those guys that went back to the flat lands should join us in Alaska where at least most of the pilots still piss of the porch at night (they still do don't they)

Sure miss the hanger I had at Chandelle Acres--Sounds like we would get along great building cubs together? I am planning to build another 12 in a couple of years. PS I just finally managed to get the 337 approved for my 160hp installation in my 12 with the long mount, PA20 exhaust, rear cooler, BC starter, Oil Adapter, It is also signed off with the borer prop of any pitch. I will post a copy of the 337 for others to use as an example.

Post some pictures of your 14 when you get a chance.

Tim
 
PA14 Mods

Thanks Crash for your suggestions and insights. I agree with watching the weight, too many mods can be a negative. Another suggestion I got for fuel tanks was 24 gallon tanks sold by Air Energy Service who are located in Neponset, Illinois. They are STC'ed for a PA14 - STC # SA01333CH. Have you heard tell of this company? The problem is I don't know of anyone who has installed them, and I don't want to be the first one. How did you get the headerless fuel system design from Cub Crafters? Another suggestion I was given was to install PA22 or PA 18 fuel tanks, but I don't know if there is any paperwork available for this installation.
 
Reply to Tim and PA-14 Driver

Tim: I will send you a message on this topic.

PA-14 Driver: I have heard of the tanks now that you mention it. I never could get good information on them and someone told me you have to do quite a bit of work to make them fit. They might be a good alternitive if you can get the scoop on the installation procedure and if it's not too bad. If you are putting in a pilot side door I can give you some tips on the door and trim system. Convert it over to a PA-18 system and mount the trim handle overhead. The stock PA-12 / 14 system is junk. Anyway as you get further into your project and have questions, drop me a private message or email me. Take care! Crash
 
PA14 Pictures

Finally got around to getting some pictures of the PA14. I tried to post them in the photo album but had no luck. Hopefully they will show up here.
Crash

PA14floats.JPG


pa14front.JPG


pa14panel.JPG


pa14interior.JPG


pa14baggage.JPG


pa14engine.JPG
 
Crash! The 14 really looks great! I especially like the clothes hanger across the baggage area? (just kidding) I almost bought one when I picket up my 12, No doubt about it the PA14 is brobably the closest performer to a PA18 their is, I just didn't feel comfortable flying it into tight strips from the "left" side. Reminded me of flying my 185, just couldn't get comfortable not seeing the gear out the right side? Performance is everybit a cub if kept light! So you really like the floats! I have heard nothing but raves about them on a cub! can't beat flat top float of any make, I have busted my ball's to many times on 2000's running for the bow!

Are you planning to fly it on Skiis this winter? ditto on the vacumn pad alt. just not worth it for the weight savings? Better to put a 40-60 alt and save the money for a JPI FS 450 fuel scanner! ( I am so glad I put mine in) It is the best thing since GPS replaced the ADF

I will call you about a project I am looking at? Enjoy the first ski flying (soon)

Tim

PS: I reconize your spot on Firelake! somethings never change
 
Russ;
Excellent choice. The 14 is a good choice if you want a 4 place plane. It ain't a Cub and never will be, but a Cub won't haul 4 people around very well. Also being experimental, you can do what you want .
 
PA-14

Thanks guys, for all the positive comments. This project was a pain compared to the PA-18 I'm in the middle of right now. It's nice to be working on a plane you can just go buy parts for. Just ordered new complete Dakota wings to go on the new Airframes Inc. fuselage. I'm either getting smart or lazy in my old age. I've gotten to where I hate refurbishing old parts. TJ; the alternator is a B&C 20 AMP vacuum pad mount with the LR-3 regulator. A good set up, but $300.00 more then the 40 amp belt drive and it makes the oil screen hard to get off because it covers up the bolts. My PA-18 will get the belt drive 40 amp. Tim; the Baumann floats do work great, I wouldn't have anything else now that I have a season on them. You are right about getting used to flying from the L.H. seat and not sitting in the center. One thing I did when I was building the 14 up was to copy my PA-18 that was parked in the hanger next to it. The stick bends, seat height, rudder pedal distance and throw. It feels a lot like my 18. Sitting off to the side is just something you get used to. After I fly the 14 a lot and get back in the 18, then it feels strange. Crash
 
PA-14 not a Super Cub

Besides just liking the whole airplane, I especially like Crash's instrument panel. It is well done, just the basics.
 
Crash, neat deal, looks like you did a real good job. Good luck with it!

Tim
 
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